A Conversation with Steve Lukather – HuffPost 3.23.12

Mike Ragogna: Steve, let’s chat about Great Gypsy Soul, the Tommy Bolin tribute album that uses his original tracks and includes coolios like you, Peter Frampton, Warren Haynes, Nels Cline and John Scofield.

Steve Lukather: Well, I’m not as cool as those other guys, but thanks for having me.

MR: But you are so coolio.

SL: Well, they are actually all friends, except for Nels, who I’m a fan of. I’d like to meet him someday. I was very honored to be asked by Greg Hampton and Warren, actually, asked me to come along for this little ride. Tommy was such a brilliant guitar player, taken a little before his time. But we still have the music, so I wish him the best in heaven, because I’m sure that’s where he is.

MR: Okay, let’s talk about his album, Teaser. How does that album rank with you all these years later?

SL: Well, not only was it brilliant at the time, I have a closer connection to all this than maybe meets the eye, which is maybe why they asked me to be on the record. But my dear friend and brother, Jeff Porcaro, who’s also not with us anymore, played on that record. He was my original drummer in tow with the million sessions that we did together for other artists. And, you know, for me, I was turned on to Tommy backwards, through theSpectrum album–Billy Cobham’s Spectrum album–which I think a lot of guitar players were just jaw-dropped when that album came out. That was a game-changer. I mean, here’s this rock ‘n’ roll guy playing with the fusions guys. At that time, fusion was not a bad word, but I never understood that anyway. Great music is great music, and great musicians are great musicians, but this album was cut live in the studio with my brothers Lee Sklar played bass, Billy Cobham. You know, this was done live. This all went down in one take and here’s this young kid, at the time, Tommy Bolin, absolutely blistering throughout this album. We were all just thinking who is this guy and immediately jumped on the Tommy Bolin fan club train. It’s amazing how ahead of the time he was, just beautiful phrasing, great tone, great bravado, and heart and soul for days.

MR: What he contributed to the Billy Cobham Spectrum album, people sometimes take for granted. They think of it from a holistic perspective becuase it’s a great album.

SL: Well, understand it was cut live, too. I mean, that was one take! As a matter of fact, one of the tunes…he broke a string and continued to play. They kept it. I’m friends with Billy and some of the guys, so I heard some of the inside stories there.

MR: Can you tell us one more inside story?

SL: I mean, what a great cat Tommy was, and how much fun he had doing the sessions. Oddly enough, the song that I worked on in this new tribute record, Jeff Porcaro played drums. So here I am playing with my brother Jeff and also someone who I consider one of the greats, Tommy Bolin, neither of whom are with us anymore. It was a rather surreal experience for me, to hear Jeff count off–his voice. There was something that brought him back to life to me, it’s very moving, actually. Jeff’s been gone for twenty years, so there were a lot of emotions there. I had a moment when we were cutting the track when I was very touched, made me miss Jeff a lot, and wish I had a chance to actually be in the room and play with Tommy. It may never have happened. I had a chance to play with a lot of my heroes. Certainly the music lives on. What can I say. I tried to play the best I could, it was a really bizarre situation, to play with people who are no longer in this world, but I think you’ll probably hear that from a few of the people who worked on this record.

MR: Can you tell us the physics of it?

SL: They actually brought the tapes over to my studio–the ProTools session, a transfer of the tapes. There it was and they played me the track and I could hear Jeff talking and stuff like that before the tape, counting off the certain way he would click his sticks. It just brought me back. With Tommy, I felt like, “God, will he approve of me doing this?” He didn’t know me, I felt like I was stepping in sacred ground here, so I needed to be really cool how I play this. Here I am jamming with a brilliant guitar player and my dead drummer, and I didn’t know Tommy, and here I am trying to play off of someone who’s no longer here. I can’t see his face, feel his emotions. He was already there and I was trying to play around this, so I tried to be gentle and tasteful. But obviously, it was in no way a sort of cutting sessions. It was like, “How do I pay respect to someone I look up to?” But then again, here I am jamming with a bro that I haven’t been with for twenty years. It was pretty surreal.

MR: What’s also pretty surreal is that twenty years ago, when I was living in California and Jeff passed, it was almost as if a national figure had died. The amount of people at that funeral, what people were saying…it was an amazing thing, just an awesome farewell.

SL: Well, yeah, and he should be remembered more than he is, actually. It pisses me off with these modern drummers who are the “best drummers of all time.” All the people that he helped teach were in there, but he wasn’t. That’s just me being emotional. I mean that’s what I hate about lists of any sort. The best whatever. Who’s the best looking woman? Well it depends on who you ask. The guy who’s married to the chick obviously thinks she is. The one with the biggest t*ts…so what the hell! What are we looking at here? These lists of who’s the best this or that are feudal and should be outlawed. Whatever touches you and whatever moves you, it’s your right to make that decision. People like Tommy? I wish he had achieved the fame that he was destined for, he would have been one of the greatest ever. But the legend lives on and those of us that knew and know do know this. This record might bring some more interest to who he was and the gift that he left behind.

MR: Yes, hopefully.

SL: I was really honored when I saw the list of who’s on it, I felt humbled and very honored.

MR: Yeah, but then again, you’re a five-time Grammy winner and play on many classic recordings yourself.

SL: That’s very nice and all. I’m not poo-pooing it, but I’m also a very fortunate man.

MR: Well, people have acknowledged you as an excellent guitar player over the years and you have to know that. You’ve been nominated for Grammys a number of times, and you’ve won five, including one for the duet you did with Larry Carlton.

SL: Yeah, he’s a brilliant musician as well.

MR: Okay, so Tommy Bolin is gone but in 2012, all these years later–because of a classic project like Teaser–actually many people do still admire and remember him.

SL: You have recorded music, and in some cases, film. You’re able to revisit these things and it’s a snapshot in time, and if it’s good, it holds up. Recording techniques, tricks and effects come and go. I think the ’80s are pretty brutal with all the drum machines and the squishy-squashy effects that everyone jumped on and then realized it’s like eating too much frosting on the cake.

MR: Yeah, but Steve, what about now? Many current production techniques are using ’80s goofy sounds, though I’m not complaining. I love a lot of that stuff as well.

SL: Tommy was an organic player. There was an amp, guitar, and him. That was what was creating the sound that came out–what came out of his heart, soul, and fingers. There are no bells and whistles. It’s kinda like Hendrix, the same thing. Even if there was a word or two, that doesn’t matter because that’s all real. Now everything’s so buffed out to a clear shine that if somebody makes even the slightest string noise, people wince. Even though my band was accused of that many years ago, we were completely dirty compared to today’s recording standards. Like I said, there’s a reality to being able to hear what once was, and I think Tommy’s playing holds up brilliantly. I mean, realize that they unearthed some of the jams that may or may not have been up to his standards, but I think that Greg Hampton and Warren did a great job of putting it all together and making something out of this. I wish the very best to Tommy’s family, and I really never got a chance to say thanks for having me, so I’ll do that right now. Thank you very much for letting me be a small part of something, somebody’s who’s playing meant a lot to me.

MR: We have to throw this out there. The other day, somebody at the radio station played “Africa,” and everyone was all over that. “Africa,” “Rosanna”…these are records that are still so loved all these years later.

SL: That’s funny, they weren’t loved when they were hits. I mean, people liked us. But the media was rather cruel, but we’ve withstood the test of time, 35 years next year. Our brother Mike Porcaro has ALS, so we’re trying to help him, but that’s not going real well. The music lives on. It cracks me up…when people sample our stuff, some young generations hear it in a different way. This stuff’s out there. Who knew when I was 19 years old that “Hold The Line” would be playing when I’m 54? It’s bizarre to think about, but I’m actually really honored to be a small part of pop culture. They still play this stuff on the radio all the time, and we play it and people come out and see us. Like I said, it’s a great job.

MR: Steve, I also want to ask you what advice might you have for new artists?

SL: Take it seriously. People have this tendency to want instant gratification without putting in the time and dues to really learn their instrument. I spent two hours this morning practicing. I still really care, and I’ve been doing this since I was 7, 8 years old. Learning your craft is really important. Anybody can have a pretty face and plug into a computer and sound decent and have a hit record…it’s all marketing, image. But if you really want to be a real musician, learn your craft. I’m not saying you have to learn how to read music–it doesn’t hurt, just like learning a foreign language doesn’t hurt. But just learn. Play. Try to get good at it. It takes a long time, it takes decades and decades to be a good musician, but moments to be a rock star. What would you rather be?

MR: Beautiful, wonderfully said. Steve, what is your favorite Tommy Bolin moment?

SL: Correct me if I’m wrong, was it “Quadrant 4” on the Billy Cobham Spectrumalbum…the opening cut, the first time he ripped and that was like, “Who the hell is that?”

MR: Yup, “Quadrant 4” opens up Spectrum.

SL: I believe that was absolutely jaw-dropping. As young guitarists, we’re studying and playing, trying to live the dream. And anybody great who came along, we thought who that guy was. We had to absorb it and learn it and find out who it was. Tommy was one of those guys.

MR: What about your favorite Toto moment?

SL: Honestly, you ask me about something that has taken a lot of my time in my life. I would say, you live this dream as a kid, and the first time you hear this record on the radio and you’re in a band and you have a hit record, it’s a pretty great moment. I’ve had a lot of great moments in my life, I have to say. I’m very blessed that way. But the first time you hear yourself on the radio is an eye-opener. When you’re a kid, you hear all your favorite music on the radio, and when your sound comes on the radio, it’s a feeling I can’t really describe.

MR: And is there a better background vocalist than Timothy B. Schmit?

SL: (laughs) Well, he’s a great singer period. I don’t say “background singer.” He’s certainly one of the best that I’ve worked with. Nice guy, too.

MR: Yeah, an amazing voice and a nice guy. So? any words of wisdom?

SL: Keep the faith. (laughs) That’s non-religious, that’s just in life in general.

MR: As in, “Keep the faith, baby.”

SL: Keep the faith, baby.

MR: By the way, solar-power. You had a little thing you threw out before we started recording.

SL: Hey, well, you know I’ve been on this planet a while and I’ve seen the world. We need to be a lot more gentle with our Mother Earth, even though we’re teeny little specs on it. We’ve really pissed on it, in a negative way. I mean our garbage, our filth in the sky and the water. Where does 6 billion people’s sh*t go every day? Where does it go? Where does the garbage go? It has to go somewhere, and that’s the earth. If we screw this up, what about my children and my children’s’ children? This is really not right. I’m not trying to be a tree-hugging, über-liberal guy, but I think just “common sense,” “peace” and “love,” these are just simple things and terms thrown out to the world, and people think, “Oh, whatever, hippie blah.” But I gotta tell you something, these are very simple human facts. Be kind, be respectful of the earth, respectful of other people. Maybe it might be a better place. I’m just saying.

MR: Very nice. And solar power?

SL: I think the fact that we don’t use this is insane. It’s a free gift. All we gotta do is invest a little bit now. I have to think there must be some greed and corruption. Is it mandatory that we use fossil fuel? Why do we use it? We could save so much (energy) and create more jobs. But for some reason, to hang on to this old [paradigm]–wires and gasoline–it seems ancient. Why are we still doing this in 2012 when we even know it’s bad? There are no residual negative effects. It’s free, it’s clean, we should do this.

MR: And it doesn’t cost $4.79 at the pump.

SL: Well, that’s another story. This bullsh*t gas storage…I mean, I remember in ’78, we’d run out of gas. Really? Come on! Then I hear there’s a wealth of oil in one of our American states that dwarfs OPEC, but we’re not allowed to drill it. Why’s that? It’s all bullsh*t. We all know it. I’m old enough that I don’t care what people think of me at this point when it comes to stuff like this. This is just ignorant, greed, graft, corruption, by people that don’t give a shit about anybody but themselves. It’s brutal to think about it, all this big greed, supply and demand thing to line their pockets.

MR: Well, not only that, but there’s a presidential election that certain corporate entities aligned with certain political parties need to affect.

SL: Well, that to me… Once you put a computer in charge of all this stuff… You’ve seen a 12-year-old hacker be able to change his grades. What makes you think that the high-level people in the government can’t change a few votes so it goes the way they want it to? Come on, man. Dead people were voting for George Bush back in the day in the Al Gore election. I don’t want to get off on a rant, but there’s a lot of un-accountability. People just brush stuff off, like, “Anyway, how about the sports? How about Kim Kardashian’s ass?” Let’s talk about that for an hour or two.” I’m just pulling that one out of there, but they deflect the truth by filling us with bullshit, that’s the mentality the world lives in–two-second attention spans, chemicals in all our food, kids addicted to computers, 8-year old kids that are beasts. What the hell is that? They have virtual friends…what’s a virtual friend? When I had a virtual friend, it was a Playboy magazine.

MR: Now you have the virtual friends on social networks…Facebook, Twitter…

SL: …I experimented with that, and for a minute it worked okay, and then it got dark. People were showing up, people writing me weird stuff. It became unfriendly. The lack now is that our privacy has been taken away. We’re living in a very Orwellian society. Pandora’s out of the box, and we can’t put her back in. But people are addicted to their machines, their boxes, their computer, their iPhones. You can’t go anywhere without being filmed. It’s really horrible to go out on stage and play to a sea of iPhones. I mean, a) being radiated; b)the spontaneity is gone because you’re so cautious since every word will be scrutinized, “At 1:38, he played this sloppy note. You suck. You’re great.” Fake-named people. I mean, I’ve been followed into the bathroom before, it’s unbelievable. People think that if they have a phone, it’s their right to film every moment of your life even if you tell them not to?

MR: How do you reverse something like that now?

SL: You can’t, that’s the thing. I have to get used to the fact that everyone has one, so how many YouTubes can there be? I have a disdain for Youtube. I mean, I love it in the sense of it’s great to revisit old things. You see somebody you love, you see some footage, you go, “Wow, that was really cool.” But the thing is that everybody has this right to film you and scrutinize you. It wouldn’t be so bad if they could just get rid of the comments, you know? Do you really need to know what some kid thinks? Maybe he hates it? My shrink told me that he’s seeing a patient who goes and purposely hates on people on the Internet, even if he doesn’t know who they are, just to take his own anger with his own life out on other people. The society we’re living in right now, where people are pissed off with their lives… So, rather deal with their own lives, they get mad at somebody who has a life that maybe they want or they just deflect their own hatred on other people because it makes them feel better for a moment about themselves, which is a sick, demented thing to think anyway. But we live in dark times. It’s about time for Jesus or the aliens to come down or something.

MR: Well, God did invent the “off” button, right?

SL: Well, also the “do-not-buy” button. But unfortunately, all of our businesses go through these little boxes and we have to be there one way or another. I’ve backed off a little bit. I do the Twitter thing a little bit. I was into Facebook for a while and it was fun, and most people are nice. But it only takes a few bad people to put you off it, you know?

MR: Let’s get back to the album. What are your other favorite musical moments from Great Gypsy Soul?

SL: Anything that Warren (Haynes) and Derek Trucks play on is pretty good for me. I love Peter (Frampton) too. Peter’s a good friend.

MR: I really appreciate your time and your candor. What’s in your future, oh by the way…anything fun?

SL: Well, I’m leaving to do G3 in a couple of days with Australia with Joe Satriani and Steve Vai, and I’m coming back to rehearse for Ringo in the summer in the United States, and I’m finishing a new solo album, and I’m starting a book.

MR: I’m not going to ask you about the book because you’re going to say you’re not talking about it anyway. (laughs)

SL: I’m not very far, so there’s not much to say anyway.

MR: Thanks for you very much for your time, Steve.

SL: I’ll talk to you later, bro, have a good one and all that peace and love stuff!

Transcribed by Narayana Windenberger