A Conversation with Robert Francis – HuffPost 6.17.14

Mike Ragogna: Hey Robert, Heaven‘s your new album, and this time out, you’re backed by the Night Tide. What’s the “Night Tide” a reference to?

Robert Francis: Well, I remember I was playing a show in Zurich, Switzerland, and at the time, I was playing with some of who I would consider the best musicians in LA. I got in with some really heavy musicians in the jazz field and I was looking around the stage and even though it it sounded great I didn’t feel like there was an energy there, it wasn’t palpable. Even though it osunded good I felt like the audience couldn’t feel it and one of those reasons was because perhaps when you’re hiring people and playing with session people they’re not necessarily as invested in the music as much as a band member would be. When coming back to do this new reocrd I wanted to try to do somethin different and have the camaraderie of a band and to pick musicians and assemble a band that would be totally different. So even though there were definitely some of the most raw moments on any record I’ve made where it’s just me and a guitar, the band itself I think, when they’re on the laubm it’s them and it’s very much a certain sound.

MR: Basically, it’s David Kitz and Ben Messelbeck with you, right?

RF: That’s right, and now we have Maxim Ludwig, who’s joined the band on the guitar. But he wasn’t on the album.

MR: Robert, I interviewed you for your last two albums including Before Nightfall. I’m hearing a lot of similarities between that one and Heaven.

RF: Right. It’s similar to Before Nightfall because that was more like a band as well. Those guys are some of my best friends. After that album, when I moved into Strangers In The First Place, that’s when I started entering different territory and we had different people playing on the record. Even if it was someone as close to me as Joachim, the more people you start including, the less of a thread there is to tie everything together. I don’t know, it just feels so good on stage, to be a singer-songwriter or whatever you call it, what you have to carry on stage and deliver yourself is just so much, it’s nice to have people to fall back on. I know the Beatles said that’s what killed Elvis, that he was all alone whereas they had each other.

MR: The Night Tide is a visual that I think goes hand in hand with the music of the album. I think you knew that was the vibe of this project all along.

RF: I did! And because we’re all from the same place and we’ve all grown up basically in Santa Monica, that name just feels appropriate. It felt very natural to make this type of record with these guys.

MR: I think that’s part of the magic of what Ry Cooder was about.

RF: Yeah! For me, especially as someone who plays guitar all the live shows incorporate such strong moments with the guitar that I’ve never been able to appropriately capture on an album because so much of my guitar playing is a response to the place and the time and the feeling, it’s sort of like something that happens once. In a recording situation there’s too many possibilities to listen back and say, “Oh, I don’t really like the timing of that,” or, “I don’t like that part of the solo” and I know with Ry it’s the same thing. Compared to what he does live the albums are really shy I suppose, but he always incorporated these moods and these elements and these textures in the songs. It’s another way to express yourself on an album as opposed to just being like, “Guitar Guy.”

MR: You know, you sort of look like Bruce Springsteen.

RF: It’s very interesting. I think people are waiting for me to make the Springsteen record. [laughs]

MR:So “Love Is A Chemical” is your video of a song from the album. What was it like putting that together?

RF: Well in all honesty, someone made a video in Europe, they compiled it from some footage that I had that was supposed to be lyric video, and MTV really liked it in Europe. When I saw the video I was like, “Whoa, whoa, whoa, this is horrible. I hate this video.” so they were like, “Well MTV likes it and you’re going to lose a huge opportunity in Europe, it’s going to be airing on TV across multiple countries.” So I was like, “Well, shit, how can I turn around a video in one day?” The video that’s online now with me and Nastassja Kinski’s daughter Sonja, I was trying not to do the “car and girl” thing anymore but just naturally I was like, “I know I can do this,” so basically we just drove around and this really well-respected photographer Piper Ferguson shot it and me and my drummer edited the video, stayed up all night and turned it in just so we could make this deadline.

MR: “Love Is A Chemical” starts with your usual falsetto, that’s becoming a bit of a trademark for you. Perhaps that’s another reason you’re getting the Springsteen comparisons.

RF: He definitely does it.

MR: In the early days, anyway. But that reminds me a little bit of the vibe on “Junebug” from the Before Nightfall album.

RF: Yeah, yeah. These are things I’m aware of, they’re not accidents. I sort of realized the “Ooh” thing; “Keep On Running” also has “Oohs”; “I LIke The Air” has “Oohs” on Before Nightfall, a lot of songs have “Oohs” on them but on those songs they’re featured and mixed up front.

MR: Especially when you’re doing the falsetto and it’s not the group vocal, they’re really prominent. My favorite single of yours is “Wasted On You,” the lyrics on that are incredible. Do you have a couple of stories for these songs? I just want to sit back and listen.

RF: Yeah. So much of my life is spent with me trying to access the part of my brain that has been shut down. I remember when I was making One By One, my first reocrd, the purity and the naivete, everything that ecompasses that process, you’re making something that’s pure and just for yourself and nothing is attached to it, no expectations. For me, making records is trying to be honest with myself to try to access that mentality again the best I can. For “Wasted On You,” I wrote it in Ypsilanti when we were on tour, playing the college there. It’s just about the desperation and wanting to feel again, bleed for someone. Human beings naturally have to desensitize themselves so they’re not as vulnerable, they have to protect themselves, and I felt that to get over this relationship that consumed my entire life I had to get tough, and at one point I remember just sitting there alone in our hotel watching a train go by and thinking to myself, “Yeah, I don’t feel anymore.” It’s just about realizing that vulnerability as a songwriter is a must and it’s okay to be vulnerable and it’s okay to approach life this way and be an open wound, that it’s okay and I don’t have to be that tough guy. It’s about admitting myself that no matter what happens my mind is just drunk on this person.

MR: Are some of the other songs, including “I’ve Been Meaning To Call,” inspired by that?

RF: Yeah, and “I’ve Been Meaning To Call” is a similar notion. I met this girl on the road and when I cancelled it as I was going through what I guess I’d call a nervous breakdown I didn’t go home and I ran away with this girl that I met one time and went up to the upper penninsula of MIchigan and drove and drove and drove until we hit the top where Copper Harbor is. You turn on the radio and it’s Canadian radio because it’s so close to Canada, it’s just separated by Lake Superior. I basically just lost myself in this person and fantasized and created this world of being someone else and doing something else and the second I went back to LA, I realized that i was completely running away from everything. That’s the story behind that.

MR: The title track is another one, where “Heaven.” What inspired that one?

RF: When I was a kid my dream was to become a musician and tour and travel, pre even being that obsessed with music I remember watching Paris, Texas, because my sister thought it was cool. I couldn’t really understand the subject matter but seeing Harry Dean Stanton walk through miles and miles of desert, I became obsessed with that and I said, “What do I do? How can I become a musician?” or, “How can I travel like that?” I thought the only way to really do it was to be come a musician. So you spend your life thinking, “Oh, if I tour with this person or if I hang out with Neil Young or sign with this record label or put out this record or do this all these things are going to equal happiness,” that that’s my own personal fulfillment or my own personal heaven. Once you check off all these things and realize that you’ve accomplished them I was like, “Why do I want more? What is this? Who am I? What does this mean?” It’s sort of about that, it’s about that pursuit of what it means to be happy or the equilibrium that I’m searching for. I think everyone goes through that, every single person on this planet is in search of something and oftentimes when they get it, they still don’t understand why they’re not fulfilled.

MR: You’re happy, you’re content with this album and you’re going to be supporting it as a musician, but where do you go from here?

RF: Let’s see… I just got back from Europe, it was my first tour since 2012 and I really had a good time. I didn’t expect myself to enjoy touring again because of the way that it went last time, but I think this little break that I’ve taken in creating my own record at my own pace has allowed me to step back and fall in love with being a musician again. I used to have a bit of a chip on my shoulder in the sense that I felt like whatever I created was great and that I could sit on my hands and ride to the top. For the most part I watched myself self-sabotage a lot of situations because I think internally I knew that there’s so much for me to do, I had to step back and realize that before pursuing music seriously again. So now, I’ve returend to this state of mind where I’m really excited to perform. I feel like Heaven is a perfect bookend for these four albums, I’ve sort of said what I needed to say there and now I’m extremely excited to go into this new landscape of music that probably will be quite different from the records I previously made. I don’t know, I’m just excited to do it again. It’s pretty fun.

MR: Robert, what advice do you have for new artists?

RF: Coming back to one of the first things we talked about, it’s about being vulnerable, and to not be scared of that vulnerability.It’s really hrd to put yourself out on the line and share your deepest thoughts with the entire world. But I think as long as you’re true to yourself that right there should at least point you in the right direction. And don’t be discouraged by this strange new world we live in. I can’t even believe how much things have changed since we started. There was no Facebook, tehre was no Twitter, there was no Instagram, people really had time to listen. I think now I find a lot of songwriters are really confused, they’re like, “How do I get heard?” “How do I do this and how do I do that?” because people don’t have the time anymore to really listen like they used to, but you can’t let that derail your music. If it’s real and it’s good and you just tour and work hard and find someone close to you to help you, whoever that person may be, I think you’ll do just fine.

MR: Considering the family that you grew up in, you had a different angle coming into the music. You came in soul first.

RF: Yeah, I was lucky. Because of my “heritage,” I suppose, I never second-guessed myself once, that I would fail in this industry. I think that’s an important thing, you’ve got to be wide-eyed and go in and believe in who you are. Knock down every door.

MR: Which kind of brings me to “Hotter Than Our Souls.” “Hotter than our souls, I’ll be leaving here without you, if there’s a road you are forgiven, you are forgiven long as it goes, if there is a wind you are forgiven long as it blows, if there’s a story you are forgiven long as it’s told.” This is a song to yourself, isn’t it.

RF: It is. The song is like an ode to forgiveness, I suppose. I needed to forgive myself and forgive this person whom I was in a long relationship with. In order to let go you have to be able to forgive yourself and forgive the other person even though it’s the last thing you want to do. That’s how that song came about.

MR: Between you and Mary Chapin Carpenter, I don’t know who had the more traumatic relationship.

RF: [laughs] I think she probably did.

MR: I already kind of asked you where the future is heading, but are there any other creative avenues you’d like to explore? Novel writing? Visual arts?

RF: I’ve been compiling this book of poetry forever and I think it’s almost ready. I’ve almost written, also, a book, but that’s going to take a little longer until it’s released. I think if all goes well this book of poetry will be released before the end of the year, but most of the year it’s going to be touring. We’re doing a month and a half in the US, going back to Europe for another month and then coming back and doing another US run and then recording the next record at La Frette studios in France, it’s this old mansion that sits about thirty minutes outside of Paris, and then try to get far out.

MR: [laughs] Forgive me for asking this, but here goes. Do you think you’re ever going to get over the woman who’s been haunting you for all these years?

RF: You know, I don’t. I don’t think I’m ever going to get over it in the way I thought I could get over it, and I think in knowing that, finally after seven or eight years of this I think that’s going to give me the freedom to accept this for what it is and pursue something different. For so long you’re comparing everything to this one thing, “Why don’t I feel like this?” At some point, you realize everything is different. In that I’m learning to be excited. When something doesn’t work it just doesn’t work, you’ve got to realize that at some point.

MR: And just to be clear, what’s your favorite ice cream?

RF: Mint chocolate chip.

Transcribed by Galen Hawthorne