A Conversation with Primus’ Les Claypool – HuffPost 10.24.11

Mike Ragogna: Hey, Les.

Les Claypool: Hey.

MR: So. Green Naugahyde. Explain yourself.

LC: I’ve been trying to explain myself for twenty years, I’m tired of it.

MR: (laughs)

LC: I can’t explain myself anymore. (laughs) You want me to explain the notion of Green Naugahyde?

MR: Please, sir.

LC: Well, the title comes from a line in one of the songs called, “Lee Van Cleef,” which was me reflecting on elements of my youth. The line is, “A yellow Studebaker with a 302 and I see the green naugahyde.” That was my father’s pickup truck when I was a kid.

MR: There was a car show here yesterday and I fell in love with a ’57 Chevy. Just thought I’d say that.

LC: An early ’60s Studebaker pickup is very different from a ’57 Chevy, but it was still a pretty interesting hunk of machinery. Unfortunately, it’s probably being smashed up into a cube somewhere, because I inadvertently ran into the side of a liquor store one evening with it. I think that sent it down its path of being on the planet no more as being a Studebaker champ. It wasn’t my fault though because the old Studebaker, now and again, the driver’s side door would fly open because the latch didn’t work properly. So, as I was making a right turn, the door flew open, and by the time I got back up into the truck, I was up on the sidewalk. It either hit a telephone pole or hit a building, and I tried to go between the two of them and I ended up hitting the building.

MR: Good choice, I guess.

LC: (laughs) I don’t know.

MR: With Primus, you can’t really predict what’s in the creative mind of Les Claypool. I want to get some stories behind the songs. For instance, “Last Salmon Man.”

LC: Well, most of my friends are contractors and trades people, or fisherman. So–I’ve written about this times before–this is the fisherman’s chronicles, chapter five or six. I’m watching the fishing industry, especially the salmon fishing industry of Northern California, fading away. I see these poor bastards losing this legacy that their grandfathers built for them as we send all of our water down to make more golf courses in Palm Springs. It’s a little frustrating, so I wrote about this legacy of the “Last Salmon Man.”

MR: What are some other topics that were important to you on Green Naugahyde?

LC: There are quite a few tracks on the record that have some various perspectives of what’s going on with our planet, socially and politically. I’ve always been a fan of people like Frank Capra, and the Coen brothers, and Elia Kazan that use these different characters in their films, these dark disturbing characters to convey various viewpoints. That’s sort of what I’ve done throughout the years with my music. Something like “Jilly’s On Smack,” which has become a very powerful song for us on this record. People have been really drawn to it, and it tends to be a song, live, that stands out. It’s somewhat based on an individual that we knew and lost to the world of substance abuse. I wrote the song from the perspective of the family, “Jilly’s on smack and she won’t be coming back for the holidays.” This family, that’s used to someone being there on special occasions, and now she’s not there because she’s somewhere else, doing something else that’s taken her priorities away from her.

MR: Addiction is a topic which is difficult to address from a parental perspective, because it’s very hard when it’s your child going through that. On the other hand, do you sweep it under the blanket?

LC: Addiction has been a huge source of fodder for many of my writings over the years because it’s been a huge part of a certain portion of my family. I lost my uncle when he was fifty because he did speed for thirty years. My cousin, who I spent every day with till I was about 13, he has been in and out of prison for the past 30 years because of speed. All of these things have been very prevalent in my family, and subsequently prevalent in the music. Like my family, I hadn’t seen my 96-year old grandfather in several years and went and saw him last week, and he’s hilarious. He’s funnier than hell, sharp as a tack, and I see the elements of how my family has always dealt with these things–these downfalls and tragedies–through humor. Both of my grandfathers are hilarious, and it’s sort of been the self-defense mechanism of my world since I was a little kid.

MR: Les, I want to move on to the song “Eternal Consumption Engine,” I love that because I think collectively, we are.

LC: We definitely are. That riff was a riff that Ler has been kicking around for about at least 15 years, and I finally said, “Let’s put that thing on a record man, I love that riff.” The wheels started clicking, I was looking through my notes, and I found “Eternal Consumption Engine”–which is obviously a play on “internal combustion engine.” Just the notion of how we are a nation of consumers these days, and far less a nation of producers. Because of that, our economy is obviously suffering, people are unemployed, and China’s economy is obviously booming and bolstering from our addiction to going to Wal-Mart and Costco.

MR: Yes, the culturally accepted addiction.

LC: I’m totally addicted to shopping…that’s what my mom used to do when we were kids. She would go buy things, keep them for a day or two, and then return them. The process of purchasing satisfied a need. I’m the same way, but I’m a Craigslist guy; I’m a Craigslist junky. I remember Tom Waits once called me a Pawn Shop Weasel. Now, I’m a Craigslist Weasel because it’s easier than going to the pawn shop. I will obsess over the strangest things until I find them. (laughs)

MR: Is that something that can be turned around? (laughs)

LC: I think it’s fine, there are far worst things I could be addicted to, I suppose. (laughs) When I go, my family is going to have a hell of yard sale.

MR: Do you remember when after 9/11 we were told if we wanted to support America, go shop.

LC: Yeah, I would take that a step further and (say) if you really want to be patriotic go buy something that’s still made in the United States, by American workers.

MR: Nicely put. So, we know that this economy is shot and Obama is getting hammered as far public opinion polls. Where do you see this going? Is there any shot at this economy recovering, in your opinion?

LC: Well, I would like to hope so, but there is a lot of political manipulation going on right now. We have a couple of football teams here, some people are rooting for the Raiders, some people are rooting for the 49ers, and they are going to do whatever they can to keep the opposing team from winning, gaining any yardage, so they can’t ultimately win the game. Unfortunately, the fans in the stands are waiting for a touchdown or two because it’s beginning to be a pretty dull game.

MR: Does it take an inspiring leader to turn people around?

LC: I think that’s a huge part of it. The notion of having someone that you can believe in and learn from and trust is an amazing thing, but that’s subjective. One person that a certain group of individuals may think is the greatest thing since cream cheese, another group of individuals is going to think is a moron. That’s just life, but I think we need to become a nation of manufacturers. That’s what built this country after WWII. I remember my grandfather working as a firefighter down in Richmond. It was a huge port for shipyards and building, there was always this sense of pride and everything that we did as a family as workers. I just don’t see that anymore.

MR: We may not know how to work anymore, but we sure know how to buy.

LC: I also think those opportunities don’t exist anymore. I travel the states all the time. Some towns that were thriving 30 or 40 years ago are now ghost towns because a certain candy bar isn’t made there anymore or piece of machinery isn’t made there anymore, when that town was built on that industry. It’s frightening.

MR: In the end, is this something where you just have to go with the changing tides?

LC: The thing is I’m a bass player, so I don’t have all of these answers. (laughs) But I think a lot of it is common sense. The tide turned a long time ago to send a lot of these companies overseas. Until we can bring a lot of that back, I think it will be a tough road.

MR: Okay, that in no way brings us to the song “Moron TV.” Or maybe it does in a bigger picture. Anyway, what went into that topic?

LC: Well, I was a kid of the ’70s that had divorced parents, and I went to visit my father and knew none of the kids in the neighborhood. I would hang out and sit around watching old creature features and whatnot on television. I would spend a lot of time in front of the television. I’m sure some of it was beneficial to my intellect and a lot of it was not. (laughs) There were only four or five channels back then, and a couple of cable channels. Now, there are hundreds of channels, there is so much dogs**t on these channels. The flip side of that is that there are a lot of golden nuggets, there are a lot of outlets for things where you can actually learn something and expand your horizons. It amazes me how we glorify some of this moronic behavior, but it’s nothing new. I’m sure it’s been going on for hundreds of years, but it’s more abundant now.

MR: We’re in the age of reality TV, and when you think it’s dying down, here comes another “make your fellow human look like an idiot” television show.

LC: Well, the unfortunate thing is you get a group of individuals and you put them in front of a camera and folks look at it and see the craziness of it. That’s where they gain the entertainment aspect. Unfortunately, there is a slew of individuals–and I’m constantly trying to educate my kids on this–that look at these same people and feel that they are being glorified. They don’t see the irony in it, they see it in glorification. That, to me, I find a little unsettling.

MR: I mean take something like American Idol where somebody looks at it and wants to be that character instead of actually training to be great.

LC: But American Idol is American Idol, it’s pop culture being amplified. That doesn’t bother me nearly as much as a group of people living in a house somewhere and they are acting imbecilic. There’s an element of watching it and understanding that the behavior is so over the top and moronic that it’s humorous and compelling. Then there is my daughter watching it and actually thinking it’s cool. There are a lot of people on this planet that will take fame in any context or take fame in any form no matter how compromising that may be because it’s fame. The glory of fame–whether it’s a positive thing or a negative thing–people are still drawn towards it.

MR: Speaking of one of the smartest shows ever, there’s South Park. It’s still going strong.

LC: Well, Matt and Trey they are a couple of sharp fellas. (laugh) They just had their 15th anniversary party the other night, so we were just down there. Those guys never cease to amaze me. They are good friends, fairly normal guys, and they keep hitting home run after home run. This whole Book Of Mormon thing won nine Tony’s.

MR: Les, are you inspired by something and that’s the moment you write it or do you work on things for a long time?

LC: It’s a little bit of both. I have notebooks scattered all over the place with various writings and ramblings, in different stages of completion. Whether it’s a short story or a notion for a film or a song or just a line. Some of it comes to fruition and completion and a lot of it doesn’t and probably never will. What was the question again? (laughs)

MR: (laughs) What is your creative process?

LC: The creative process, it’s always different. As long as it’s casual, I don’t like forcing things. If I have to sit down and force myself to write something, I just don’t do it. If it doesn’t come naturally, I feel like it’s in my own head but it’s not going to be nearly as good. The stuff that sticks with me over the years was the stuff that just flowed, but that could also be a long-term process. “Jilly’s On Smack” was a line in a notebook that expanded to what it is now. It may be a picture, it may be one little line, it may be three lines, you never know.

MR: Are there any songs on the album that took a long time to complete?

LC: Not really. I was very insistent that everybody bring in material on this record because Primus records in the past have been things I’ve brought in or things we’ve jammed on in a rehearsal space. I didn’t want it to be all that. After doing the Oysterhead record, I liked starting on somebody else’s thought, so having Ler bring in the riff for “Jilly’s On Smack” and then building off of it is amazing, or “Eternal Consumption Engine” and building off of that and trying to support his vision, that’s a whole new portion of your brain that you’re using for this creative element. That, to me, was exciting.

MR: Les, what was the approach recording-wise?

LC: My studio is full of vintage gear. I have an old API 2488 console from the early ’70s, I have a two-inch, 16-track that we would track to. Once it was all tracked, it did go into Pro Tools and we did our mixing off of Pro Tools and back into the vintage equipment. It was a combination of vintage and modern technology.

MR: You guys got back together again after 10 years to record Green Naugahyde. I guess after the collaborations, etc., you brought some of your new knowledge and new looks at music into this project.

LC: Well, I think the last ten years have had a lot of growth. Hopefully, we’ve all grown over these last ten years. For me, particularly, it was a period of experimentation–growth in many different ways as far as playing with different musicians. The more you play with other people, you gain different perspectives. It’s like having a conversation; the more conversations you have with different people with different perspectives than yourself, then the better conversationalist you will become. And I’ve had a lot of conversations over the past ten years I was able to bring to the Primus fold. I would have brought it to any fold I would had gone to, even if we had done an Oysterhead record. As you move through life, hopefully, you’re gathering not only moss but some barnacles and experiences that you can bring with you into any creative situation.

MR: You mentioned Oysterhead, which was with Stewart Copeland and Trey Anastasio. How does it work when you’re working on other projects? Is it open-ended as far as the future?

LC: I would like to hope they are. I’m a very fortunate individual. There are a lot of creative opportunities out there and I like to take as much advantage of that as much as we can, because we’re only on the planet for a certain amount of time. I would like to get as many punches in my sandwich card as I can. Fill my repertoire and having something that looks good on my tombstone when they put me in the dirt. Why wouldn’t you want to go revisit some of these things that were pleasant and creatively satisfying?

MR: Plus you’ve had a nice cast of characters to play with like Adrian Belew, Tom Waits…

LC: …yeah, playing with people of that caliber both musically and socially is spectacular. For me, that’s what defines success more than anything for me, besides having a good family is working with and befriending, not only my heroes, but people I respect as creative people.

MR: Do you see yourself maybe creating another concept in the next couple of years?

LC: I would like to hope there is something on the horizon. Right now, I have a lot of pots on the stove. I use the stove metaphor a lot. The Primus pot is on the front burner. At some point in time, I will be pulling the Oysterhead pot forward, or I will go do another project with Eugeine Hutz. There are a lot of things, and I’m sure there are a lot of things around the corner that I’m not even anticipating.

MR: You mentioned family before, I just wanted to ask you how your nephew’s doing?

LC: He’s a tough little guy.

MR: Of course, you had that benefit for him a while back. Did that generate enough support?

LC: There’s been extraordinary support for my brother and his family. So, it’s greatly appreciated and heartwarming.

MR: Les, what advice do you have for new artists?

LC: You’ve just got to play. Play as often as you can with as many people as you can in front of as many people as you can. Playing in your bedroom and in the basement is limiting. You need to go out and play in front of other people with other people. Again, it’s back to the conversation thing. You can either read a speech or you can have a conversation. To be a good conversationalist, you need to talk to a lot of people.

MR: What’s touring looking like for Primus?

LC: We’re just starting the States tour. We’re about a week into it and I think we’re going to South America later this year and then back to Australia and then in Europe next spring. And it’s all via hot air balloon.

MR: (laughs) How are you pulling that off?

LC: It’s old school.

MR: Your new album came in at #14 on the Billboard charts. After all these years, people still love Primus. Feels good?

LC: It feels absolutely horrible. (laughs) What am I supposed to say? It’s good that’s great, fantastic. I’m clicking my heels together.

MR: Yeah, lame question. Les, I appreciate your time and thank you for talking with us.

LC: Yeah, no worries.

Transcribed by Theo Shier