A Conversation with Peter, Paul & Mary’s Peter Yarrow – HuffPost 2.10.12
Mike Ragogna: I am honored to interview such a legend! Peter, how are you?
Peter Yarrow: Doing well, Mike. But I shrink in horror and dismay at your use of the word “legend.” (laughs) I will tell you that I think the legacy of Peter, Paul & Mary that we inherited and that we carry along with us is formidable, it’s very worthy of note, it’s been so inspiring. We did, however, lose Mary two years ago this past September. But as far as I’m concerned, I’m just another guy with feet of clay who has to get up and brush his teeth every morning. Sometimes, I am lucky enough to perform and sing onstage and that legacy invests itself in me.
MR: That’s great. Well, we’re very glad that you do. Let’s jump right in by discussing a song that means a lot to you and many others, “Don’t Laugh At Me.”
PY: That song is the anthem of Operation Respect, a non-profit that addresses creating a caring school environment for children so that they aren’t constantly dealing with bullying and ridicule. There is a terrible scourge of negativity in our society and in lots of societies today. That song was the inspiration for the creation of this non-profit thirteen years ago. There is a program by the name of Don’t Laugh At Me at over 22,000 schools nationwide. I didn’t author the song, it was written by Steve Seskin and Allen Shamblin, but I probably sing it 20 times more than either of them ever thought anyone would sing it. (laughs) I did 500 appearances all over the country over a period of three years when we began to school national organizations on this issue. We did things for organizations for the administrators, the teachers, at national gatherings, and at state gatherings. We sang and spoke about the issue that is now on the front pages of newspapers every day. We talked about the mean spiritedness and cruelty that can exist, not only as it exists in these schools, but as it exists in society as a whole. We’ve seen ridicule become a real sport in this past decade. It’s now entertaining. Its effect on society and children in particular is horrific. Childhood and youth depression are running rampant, suicide rates from this bullying are rising, and the heart of America is bruised by this. I think a lot of what we need to bring back to our country is the caring, good-natured, generous kindness that was so much a part of the world I grew up in. Now it’s becoming particularly tough, especially for those with special needs, those who are Muslim, or are born with other sexual identities. When all of that transfers itself into the world of children, it’s particularly horrible to see. It’s hard to believe that this has happened, but it’s happened gradually. Now we’ve sort of grown used to it, but for me it’s still hard to believe.
MR: That’s very powerful and I very much appreciate your passion for that work. Peter, let’s talk a bit about you recent appearance at CSPA in January. Did you do many songs from your catalogue at that show?
PY: I always do a lot of Peter, Paul & Mary songs, it’s my legacy. I do talk about them, though, and give them a context like I just did with, “Don’t Laugh At Me.” There’s more music and less talk. I think it was sold out.
MR: I also wanted to chat with you for a bit about your children’s books. What inspired you to do that? Was it creating “Puff, The Magic Dragon”?
PY: For about fifteen years, an agent had been urging me to record a special version of “Puff, The Magic Dragon” for an illustrated book. I resisted the notion because I didn’t see how that was gonna help mankind, you know? (laughs) “Puff… ” was just a song to me, and it didn’t occur to me that it could be so, so important. First off, what initially made it important to me was the fact that I was then beginning to join my daughter, Bethany Yarrow, onstage with her band sometimes and sing that song. Her band is called The Bethany and Rufus Roots Quartet. It was then that I realized how beautiful it was and I said that I would record it for the book with my daughter and make it a generational thing. What I didn’t realize is that it would launch a whole other world for me in which music is now a part of books. There are about 50 songs in this repertoire — there are only a few where the whole song is illustrated. It transformed me from an activist folk singer to the only activist folk singer who’s toyed around with anything outside the genre in the last two decades — unless you consider Bob Dylan, who I think has also transcended a category. It proved to me that even though the world of recording and commercial pop music has closed the door on folk music with it’s sensitivity and conscience, that music has found its place in publishing. What maybe sold 100 copies as a CD sold a million copies as a book. I did four books of twelve folk songs each that are kind of a basic library of songs — there’s an illustration for the song, chords, and some commentary. My hope is that this kind of music reasserts itself into the lives of children, because I believe some of the things missing from our culture is singing together and music. I feel the role of music in the Civil Rights movement and other movements that have come along is enormous. Just the simple idea of creating community through music is a basic principle of the Don’t Laugh At Me campaign. So, I think there’s a real link between the books, the Don’t Laugh At Me program, and the legacy of Peter, Paul & Mary.
MR: Many remember those powerful pictures of Peter, Paul & Mary alongside Martin Luther King, Jr., reminders of how determined you all were during that period as activists.
PY: It was certainly one of my, and the group’s, proudest moments, if not the proudest. There was also the Selma to Montgomery March and trips to the Philippines to celebrate successful revolution. Most important, in my opinion, are the movement appearances that we did then. You have to understand that today, I’ve been singing at all of the “Occupy” protests because that movement has continuity. These efforts that are surrounding us are very much a part of that same vision that we shared in August of ’63 when Dr. King delivered his “I Have A Dream” speech. When I go to these protests today, it’s the same vision — it’s about being humane, fair, equitable and just. The essence of the “Occupy” movement is not about just changing one law so that you don’t have the collusion between big business’ interest and wealth and the creation of the laws of the land. That’s only because the people that are elected by that wealth are then beholden to the people who paid for all of their television advertisements. If we look at the big turning point in the Republican primaries, for instance, where Newt Gingrich apparently got these five million dollar gifts — we have to stop and ask ourselves if this is really the functioning of democracy. Why are the people with all of the wealth solely the ones determining how this country is run? The wealth of this country continues to be distributed more and more inequitably — greater and greater wealth being amassed by some, and the rest of the people losing ground in very critical ways. Then there is the recession that everyone expects our president to fix, and yet he is blockaded at every turn. People in Congress are acting like bullies and doing everything they can to destroy this president. They expect him to fix the economy when we were bankrupted by a war that should never have been fought — it was based on a lie. There were no weapons of mass destruction. We have become so crazy blind.
MR: Many would say that perhaps we’ve been living in a period of extreme cynicism.
PY: Right. The day after 9/11, the president said we were a nation at war. We weren’t a nation at war until he made us a nation at war and sent us into Iraq. We had endured a terrible terrorist attack, and believe me, in Israel and Palestine, they know the difference between enduring a terrorist attack and being at war. But he leveraged that attack so that he could instill fear in Americans and no one would question his policies. That devastated America on many levels. Even though we had eight years of George W. Bush, we know that it wasn’t even due to any sort of electoral decision — it was a Supreme Court decision that was extraordinarily out of line.
MR: Then, four years later, there was that dubious Ohio count.
PY: Yes. There was an article in Rolling Stone that said that even that was a fallacious count. We had two four-year terms that have decimated the reputation of the United States in other countries and we’ve injured ourselves terribly. The costs, both moral and financial to this country, have been overwhelming. And what did we accomplish? There are bad people overturning tyrants all over the world, and if we decide to take on everything, in the end, all we get is hatred from other countries, because we have, in the process of making those decisions, done horrific things around the world. We don’t reflect on that. We think that if the U.S. did it, it must be justified. It just doesn’t work that way. What about the apology to Guantanamo Bay detainees? What about the 7th and 9th Wards in New Orleans? There are places in Iraq that have been deemed unsafe to have children because of the amount of radiation that exists there now. We have to acquire the reflectiveness and the decency to understand that as great a nation as we are, we are still extremely flawed. We have to do something to make amends for that.
MR: And I know that you all shared very similar views and passions about the world as Peter, Paul & Mary. Speaking of Mary, are you still affected by the loss of Mary Travers?
PY: Of course. Every time I sing, I feel her presence. I still sing “Leaving On A Jet Plane” at my concerts and I invite the audience to sing Mary’s part. I’ll always still sing our songs — I won’t stop singing “Puff, The Magic Dragon” or reminiscing about all of those times. I will also be keeping people like you up to date on the fact that this kind of music is important in our society and history. We need children growing up learning how to sing this music, sing together, and create an environment that fosters acceptance in one another rather than teasing and rejecting those that are different from us.
MR: Do you think that Peter, Paul & Mary would have a vision or cause, in addition to Operation Respect, that you all would have been united on?
PY: Sure. We would have a united front about the destructiveness of big business and the destruction of the democratic process. We would have strong feelings about the “Occupy” demonstrations. We would be very much untied in the belief that part of what has to happen is that children need to be educated in their hearts. There is an education paradigm in America that is so focused on the academics and that’s wrong and destructive. We have to nurture the whole child in order for them to become a whole human being. We have to teach them to take care of each other, respect each other, and respect themselves. We need to instill in them a natural feeling of obligation to contribute to society. I could go on and on, but we would be united in all of that, I think. Adults are stuck in a very terrible gridlock — we need a following generation that’s moral, caring and humane. And hopefully, they will inspire the older and younger generations to be the same.
MR: Great. What advice would you give to a new artist?
PY: Don’t try to follow the winds of popular taste and style. Follow what inspires you. Think of your art as something that first and foremost expresses your sensibilities, then you’ll be an artist and the value and content are yours. But if you’re trying to write to be successful or paid to sell your art, you won’t have much to say. That’s just not the way it works.
MR: Beautiful. Thanks so much for joining us today and I hope to talk to you again soon.
PY: Thanks so much for having me.
Transcribed by Evan Martin