A Conversation with Next BIG Nashville’s Jason Wilkins – HuffPost 9.29.10

Mike Ragogna: This is a very interesting period for Nashville because it’s trying to be in on the cutting edge of technology. Can you go into that a little bit?

Jason Wilkins: Sure. That’s funny because one of the other things that I do is I’m the co-chair of the branding committee for the Nashville Mayor’s Music Council, and we were just having a discussion today about perceptions of Nashville and what are the things that we have to deal with as the brand. One of them is exactly what you’re saying–people don’t automatically think progressive, diverse, and they certainly don’t automatically think of technology when they think Nashville, but sure enough, all that stuff does go on. From a technological standpoint, while country music is actually not what they consider an “early adopter”–meaning they’re not the first people to buy the iPod–they’re all finally getting into online music as well. Regardless of that, outside of country music, we have all kinds of other business that goes on here, from Very Vinyl–one of the last record pressing plants in the United States–to the very digital company Echomusic, which was bought by Ticketmaster and folded into their company.

What the Leadership Music Digital Summit–which Next BIG Nashville merged with this year–tries to do is bring in a lot of leaders from all sides. There is a big discussion that will take place during our event between the RIAA (Recording Industry Association of America) and other stakeholders in copyright and the people who are really pushing for net neutrality and what people are referring to as “copyleft.” You have people like Tim Westergren from Pandora coming down, folks from Google, Bebo, and all these different major stakeholders in the digital world, and then you also have major labels, independent labels, managers, agents, and everybody. We’re hoping to get as many of the leaders and the big voices in the conversation about the music business, where it’s at, and where it’s going into one place at one time. That’s kind of the whole idea.

MR: Where is it being held?

JW: It’s being held at Belmont University, which is a small university here known for two things–almost beating Duke in the first round of the NCAA tournament a couple of years ago, and for having a music business degree. You can actually go and study audio engineering, copyright, and things like that. It has produced people like Trisha Yearwood and Brad Paisley, who were both students there.

MR: Who are some of the speakers representing the industry? Will there be any artists or producers?

JW: On the artist side, as expected, they are some of the toughest to wrangle. We’ve been talking to everyone from Hayley Williams from Paramore, to Kings Of Leon, to The Black Keys, and all different kinds of folks. It’s just very difficult, with touring schedules and stuff, to find the people that we want to have speak. Part of it is if we can put someone onstage who can sort of mentally connect the dots for the world outside of Nashville, then people look at these artists that have actually been successful in the most difficult time in music history who are all either based out of here or do a lot of their business out of here. Those are some of the folks that, even though we don’t necessarily have them represented up there, we have the people that represent them up there like John Peets who not only manages The Black Keys out of Nashville, but also does country acts, and has worked in the past with folks like Gillian Welch. You’ve got Scott Borchetta, who runs Big Machine Records with artists like Taylor Swift, talking about how he developed her, and what his plans are for the future. Livia Tortella, who was just recently named the COO of Atlantic Records, will be coming in and talking about 360 deals. We’ve been hearing about 360 deals for a while. Well, some of them have been in place now for five or six years. Let’s look at how they’ve worked, and who benefited the most. That will be an interesting and hopefully compelling, discussion. Because what you want to come out of this is not just people getting up on stage to say, “This is my company, and here’s what I do.” You’re putting leaders together, you really want to engage with people, you really want them to talk about what’s really happening. Sometimes, that can be difficult–music people can be like politicians who want to give you pat answers. But the digital summit and our event, Next BIG Nashville, both have had those types of discussions happen before. Those things where it gets a little heated, and it gets interesting, and honestly, that’s what we hope for. It’s a difficult time, so you have to talk about some difficult things.

MR: What do you think is the most pressing problem that the industry and artists need to get together and fix immediately?

JW: Well, you know, what it still boils down to–and this is not me stepping on one side or the other because we kind of have to be referees here, and let everybody just debate it out. But I think there is one undeniable fact that has come out of the last ten years. It’s arguable whether the kind of money and the kind of income streams that were being made in the ’90s will ever be attainable again, or even if they should be. There are people who philosophically disagree with a lot of what was set up before, but the thing that is undeniable is that nothing has replaced record sales, and by record sales, I mean physical purchases. Digital downloads, even with major adoption throughout the U.S., have not equaled that out, so you have a situation where you have to say, “Where’s the money going to come from?” Some people have talked about streaming, but the income you make from streaming is really, really low, and so far, the adoption of it is incredibly low. You’ve got new players coming into the game, folks like Spotify, who are going to be at the summit, and Rdio; and folks like Rhapsody are still pushing their products, but people were slow to start buying downloads, and they’re really slow to get on the streaming thing.

So, what’s going to replace it when it goes away? The erosion continues without anything to take its place, and I think the multi-million dollar question right now is, what, if anything, is going to take its place? You hear in the U.S. about a double-dip recession. Well, we haven’t hit the bottom yet, as far as the record business goes. Some people think that we have, but we haven’t. Maybe that’s just my opinion, but I feel like you’re going to get to the point where one generation replaces the next, as far as their habits and what they do. When you look at trends and talk to folks whose job that is…which we’ve got a couple of those people at the summit too–the CEO of BigChampagne, Eric Garland, and Russ Crupnick of the NPD Group. These people who are super data crunchers and really get into the numbers that show you what teenagers are doing now and what people in their twenties are doing. But now we have ten years of that kind of information of what these trends are. People aren’t growing up and starting to buy stuff, you know? They’re just like, “Well, it’s always been free. It’s always going to be free.” So, it’s going to hit that point where we need to ask, “Is it? Is it always going to be free? Will something be done about that or will people just stop making money off of music entirely?” That’s the doomsday scenario, and I don’t think it will ever come to that because if you ever do any historical research into music in general–going back to before people ever bought and sold it–it’s so integral to the human experience that music’s not going to go away. It’s just a question of how is it going to sustain itself as a business, you know?

MR: Right. Now, you have a history of being musician, right?

JW: Yeah, absolutely, I still do. I mean, I don’t make any money at it, but I still make it.

MR: So, this all is relative to personal experience as well.

JW: Absolutely. I’ve had the opportunity to be on all sides of the ups and downs of the music business. I got my first job when I was eighteen, and I’m thirty-six or seven now. I forget, but after thirty-five who cares, really.

MR: (laughs)

JW: I was on an independent label, played with major label artists, I’ve been able to tour with different folks, write for people, record with a ton of folks, and see all those different parts to it. I guess the sad part to me about what’s going on from a business standpoint is the biodiversity of the music business. There used to be middle class–the Grant Lee Buffalos and Sonic Youths of the world. I worry about those kinds of bands a little bit because they had to help major labels to get them through certain periods, even though we view them as independent. It’s hard to sustain yourself completely as an independent, especially with how fickle blogs are, you know? The one good thing the labels did was create a system where you could have all different levels of success. Obviously, they created a lot of bad things too, and I was definitely a part of some of those things, but that’s just a personal feeling. Maybe nobody cares that much about that anymore, we’ll see. We’ll see what consumers demand over the next five to ten years.

MR: Well, nobody can predict the future, but on the other hand, that’s the purpose of this conference. What’s its origin?

JW: Well, I started the Next BIG Nashville Music Festival about five years ago. I also do some journalism, and I was writing a story about Nashville at that time. I moved to Nashville in ’93, and I was aware of a couple of different cycles when non-country music had started to bubble up and make national waves. That was the most significant point in the city’s history from non-country. You had the Kings Of Leon, Paramore, Be Your Own Pet, and probably about fifty or sixty either major label or major independent signed artists that kind of ballooned up at that point. So, I wrote an article about it, we decided to throw a party, and then the next thing you know, that party has turned into a festival, and that festival now is five years in the running and has added a music conference element to it. In the last year, we’ve gotten together with the Leadership Music Digital Summit, which has also been going on for five years now, and decided it would probably be a lot better if the two events happened at the same time. So, that’s what we did.

MR: Smart.

JW: It’s technically still under two separate names, and it’s kind of a, for lack of a better term, South By Southeast approach.

MR: Now, you have one hundred and fifty signed, unsigned, indie, and nationally recognized artists who will be performing over the four nights. I like to champion newbies, so who are some of the lesser known names?

JW: Yeah, some of the lesser knowns. There’s a national band that I’m particularly fond of right now. They’ve got kind of an Arcade Fire meets boys raised on gospel and Bruce Springsteen approach to what they do, and they’re called The Apache Relay. They’re a fantastic live band, and probably a complete unknown from a national standpoint right now. There’s a band called Uncle Skeleton who is very interesting. It’s actually a son of a famous Nashville songwriter and artist, and he gets in there and makes kind of electro, glitchy, strange pop music. But then, live, he delivers it almost like E.L.O. with full strings and everything too.

MR: Who’s the father?

JW: The father is Steve Wariner.

MR: Oh, of course, Steve Wariner, yeah.

JW: Yeah, he and his son, Ross used to have a band called Kindercastle, and his new one is Uncle Skeleton. He really puts a lot into the presentation of it. He’s very much got the Jeff Lynne, Brian Wilson, mad genius approach to it. Then, there’s an artist named Madi Diaz, who is a wonderful singer-songwriter who, as my friend Mark puts it, “She’s a unicorn.” She’s that person that just stands out in the crowd from just standing there. In a town full of singer-songwriters, to stand out as a singer-songwriter is a pretty huge accomplishment.

MR: It is.

JW: She really does, she’s incredible.

MR: Since you’ve segued into this question so nicely, what advice do you have for up-and-coming artists that are starting right now?

JW: Take advantage of investor capital money right now. Meaning, there are a lot of digital music start ups that are vying for similar spaces or they’re vying for attention, and they’ve got decent amounts of money behind them right now, so a lot of times, their services are cheap or completely free, a la Band Camp. There are all different kinds of things. There are ways to get your videos up there, there are ways to deliver your music and also bundle it with a t-shirt that people can custom design online. There are so many ways to do customization experiences for people, and that seems to be one of the few things that you can actually get folks to spend money for. The bad thing about it, to me, is that I remember wanting to be in band and not wanting to do the business side. I wanted to play music, and go out there and tour, but now it really does demand of you to do that stuff. If not you, then find a friend who really likes doing that stuff because it’s almost impossible to get attention without engaging people in that way–engaging people through Facebook, and Twitter, and those kinds of channels. I think taking full advantage of all that stuff is paramount to actually getting some attention.

MR: Nice. When are the dates for your event?

JW: September 29th through October 2nd.

Transcribed by Ryan Gaffney