A Conversation with Max Frost – HuffPost 9.11.13

Mike Ragogna: Max, “White Lies” is kind of blowing up on the internet. What’s the history? How did this all come together, this latest EP, Low High Low?

Max Frost: I sort of had many points really in the past year or two since I’ve started making music on my own where I put together a little EP or a little LP or something. It’s funny, every time I’ve done thrown something together like that, writing, my process, and shopping it around before I officially released any of it, sort of turned into me creating an opportunity where I had to wait a little bit longer until I had, you know, “Oh, what if I have these people on my team? What if I released it due to this? Is it going to be way better?” And so really, this is probably like the second or the third EP I’ve had ready to go. But this particular EP really came together over the past two months and the process was really me recording a lot of stuff because right after South By (South West), before I had gotten the attention online with “White Lies” or done the deal with Atlantic or anything, I actually had a hard drive and a computer stolen that had pretty much everything I had ever done. I wasn’t really able to have the luxury of just going in and remixing stuff for this EP, I had to pretty much remake everything. Luckily, “White Lies” was the one song that I did have files for. We ended up putting up my initial mix of that anyway, but most of the process was recreating a lot of stuff, which was a much more difficult thing than I had expected. But really, it’s been great. I feel like we’ve been gearing up to this and I feel like it represents what the past has been and also the future a little bit.

MR: You’re style is like a singer-songwriter meets electronic meets modern production values. Who are your inspirations and how did you get to this sonic place that you’re in right now?

MF: My background is really all in blues, and in old school music and stuff like that, and that’s how I ended up developing my singing style–as a little bit more of like a soulful singing style from learning a lot of blues and that just sort of being the backdrop of all my stuff musically. Then I was writing a lot of songs that were singer-songwriter and sort of transitioning into more of a songwriter from a guitar player, so I started doing that for about a year, maybe. I started running into a lot of these hip-hop guys who wanted me to put hooks on their records and stuff like that. I had been into a lot of hip-hop but I had never really looked at myself as an artist that would be able to crossover to that. It was a slow and steady process getting into it, but after a while, it sort of became the bread and butter of what I was doing because it was so much easier to go make a beat myself and go do it all on my own record than to go get a band and go into the studio. So that was economically the one thing that pushed me towards that. In a way, it’s weird that you say that I’m a singer-songwriter who’s using modern production because that’s sort of the way that I look at it. I look at it as like I’m almost a beat-maker guy who also sings, and I really look at my approach to writing on a lot of stuff that I make as like I’m a rapper, even though I don’t rap, just the way that I look at phrases and things. Everything is melodic. Everything that I think about is phrasing rhythmically much more like a rapper, even though I don’t consider myself a hip-hop artist or have any aspirations to be a rapper or anything like that. It’s more that I just go with the formula that they seem to access the music that they make and apply it with my own different influences into that.

MR: It can be argued that the genre of singer-songwriters can embrace the concept of rappers. Rappers just sort of jumped in naturally, if you know what I mean. They’re talking from the streets the same way singer-songwriters talk from their cultural and social experiences in the old school of doing things.

MF: Yeah, totally. That’s spot on. I’ve actually really never thought of it that way. They’re naturally in a big picture sort of way married in a way like that, you’re right.

MR: Hey, you’re going on tour starting Sept 26. Gary Clark Jr. is one of the acts you’ll be touring with, and he has been getting a lot of attention. Are you excited about it the tour?

MF: Oh man, I’m so excited about it. It’s crazy. It’s so surreal, man. I used to open for Gary years and years ago when he was still in Austin and I was in another band called Blues Mafia. We were opening for Gary at least once or twice a month there for a good while. He was always an older, more successful figure in the scene. We knew each other and he was always cool to me. When things really started taking off for him, I was always thinking, “Man, if I could just catch up and get my own thing rolling quick enough to be in something affiliated, it would be a total dream come true.” So this tour… I can’t even describe how surreal it is that it’s happening. Because it’s been so many years and, at the same time, it’s all happened so fast, that’s it’s going to be an intense thing again when in reality, it’s going to be a whole new thing. I really don’t know what to expect but I’m very excited.

MR: Do you consider yourself part of the Austin musical community?

MF: Oh, yeah definitely. I mean, I’m a product of it. There’s so much diversity here and the quality of the musicianship here is really at a high level. What’s weird about the Austin scene is that it’s not like a place like Chicago, or a place like that where it’s got a very clearly defined musical genre imprint or thing that it does. There’s definitely some heavy influence–Willie and Stevie Ray were a big part of this place, sort of big names associated with this city and you can’t really pin a certain genre to it and go, “Oh, the city is about that.” What you end up with is a lot of players and a lot of musicians, like myself, who have dabbled in all the areas and have started pushing in their own direction.

MR: “White Lies” has taken on a life of its own on the internet. What do you think is the reason?

MF: I don’t know, man. For me, I really like that song. I’ve always been a fairly insecure artist and honestly, I finished that song and when I finished it, I didn’t think, “Oh, this is great. This is totally going to XYZ!” I just thought, “Oh, here’s another one,” and added more and, “Maybe it’s too this, maybe it’s too that.” I have no idea, man. I think the subject matter of the song is dark, but I think that in a lot of ways, people are able to pick up enough of what the song is about to go, “Oh, that’s cool.” But really, it’s just the groove and the feel of it is what I think people like. To them, it’s like this really happy, upbeat thing that puts them in a good mood. The things that led to writing this song…I never looked at it like, “This is gonna be this super upbeat summer jam,” or something like that. I looked at it as a pretty dark song.

MR: How did you create the songs on this EP? What is your creative process?

MF: Like any songwriter, I wouldn’t say that I have any specific formula. I would say that my best stuff or the way I enjoy writing is where I hit a place where my best stuff is coming out, like “White Lies” and the other records were ones that I made where I work on the track, and I got to a point where I was really feeling the track and then only then, started writing the song. Something that always bums me out about sitting there and writing is solo on guitar. I mean I’ve done that for a long, long time. I’ve done a lot of songwriting with bands in the room and stuff like that. Every process is different and I love co-writing. I love writing with bands and all that. But I really think that my process… I think every song on this EP is that process of finding a groove and then somewhere in that groove, something inspires me–an emotion–and then I start bleeding in details and then trying to develop a feel of a song. That’s the process. I used to start more lyrically, but for me, melodies are way more in abundance than words.

MR: Are the words coming more from personal experience or observation or a combination?

MF: Kind of both. You know, in some way, it’s always kind of personal, but I try not to just focus it around the emotions. Anytime I get too specific into the details of my own personal life, it becomes impossible for me to have any kind of perspective on whether or not someone else could really perceive what I’m trying to explain or feel at all, so I try to step back and write it much more narratively and try to focus on much more sort of primal emotional states, which connected a lot with the title of the EP. With my writing I try to really focus on a feeling and try to convey that in words the best I can. I definitely don’t consider myself a formulaic great pop writer or anything like that. Most of my songs, I think if you were to put all the words down and try to understand what the song means I think you could get a close understanding but I don’t write these perfect understandable pop songs. There’s always some ambiguity to it though, and I think that that’s needed. I think the best songs kind of leave a bit of a space of an unanswered question that the listener fills with whatever their feeling of it is. The context of the emotion is much more in the specific melody phrase that those words are on in that specific phrase than the whole song. Like if that whole song is about this and by the end of the song, now you get it. Like you get it already before you even understand what the song is about–the first lines–if the words flow well with whatever that phrase is and it hits you in a place, I think that’s where 90% of the emotional context comes from. It really doesn’t have much to do with logical meaning, it’s much more at the center of yourself with much more animal.

MR: It’s like without the lyrics being said, the music was already doing the same communicating. The words seem like a formality.

MF: Yeah, totally! Absolutely, I love that, that “the words seem like a formality.” I love that. For me, that’s the biggest, most frustrating part of co-writing recently. I don’t think it matters. I think if you find something that sounds right and you feel something and some meaning’s conveyed, that’s what’s important. I don’t think that it needs to be like, “Okay, so set the scene, and what’s the theme going to be?” The greatest songs… No one understands the words to “Smells Like Teen Spirit,” or like half of Nirvana’s songs. No one knows, but they’re still on the radio, you know.

MR: Not only do people not know the words, but they identify heavily with those songs.

MF: Yeah. Really, I would almost say that the title of the song, in most cases, is more important than most of the words in the song. The title sets more of a tone than the words. But I love what you said about the words just being a formality. That’s spot on. I’m going to remember that.

MR: Thanks Max! “White Lies” is a little bit more literate and relative to what the title of the EP is–Low, High, Low. But “Nice and Slow” is more reflective of the mood of that particular song, that being your other “hit” from this EP. So that kind of proves your point, doesn’t it?

MF: Definitely. “White Lies” is a pretty specific emotion. It’s the paranoia, it’s the fear of the situation, and it’s pretty easy for people to understand. “Nice and Slow” is much more a mixture of things. It’s a positive thing in a way. It’s a sad song for me in a way where you’re sort of embracing someone you love for the last time.

MR: Speaking of what you love, you have no regrets about leaving the University of Texas?

MF: [laughs] No, not yet.

MR: You don’t miss the frat parties and the ball games and all that?

MF: You know what’s funny is I’m playing a frat party this weekend at UT. [note: that was a week ago when this interview was conducted] There’s always part of me that’s like, “How simple and nice would life be if I settled down, got a nice little degree and a nice little sorority girlfriend.” But no, I was going crazy, and started losing my mind in high school and I wanted to make music and do what I wanted to do. Really, by the time to choose colleges came around, I didn’t care anymore. I was just going because I thought I had to go. And as soon as I got there, I was so bummed out. I thought, “Man, this isn’t the real world, this is just another high school, this and this.” I couldn’t do it. I did it for a year and I went to Venice for the summer and just kept writing and that’s when I wrote “White Lies” and wrote a bunch of stuff. I came back and I was like, “Man, if I don’t drop my other serious stuff and just sprint at this, I could end up in my life really having some regrets.” So if I end up being a flash in the pan or whatever, at least I can say I gave it a good shot and go back to school rather than wondering what could have happened.

MR: What about going back to University under the right circumstances, as a musician?

MF: Yeah, I would love to do that. I definitely struggled with that. That was my main struggle. I couldn’t find what I really wanted to study there. I studied English for a while. I love reading and stuff like that, but I couldn’t find something that I wanted to study that intensely for four years. I don’t know what I’d study if I went back. But I definitely would be interested in doing that. And there are things that I miss like the irresponsibility of being a college student and just taking care of school stuff and hanging out. But really, what are the responsibilities of music other than making music and answering the phone?

MR: Nice. What is your advice for new artists?

MF: Find people who you truly believe, and who believe in what you do, not people who think that they could be the piece that makes you right, whether it be musically or whether it’s business. I’m not someone who comes along and says, “I love what you do, with me, you could be this.” Never that. You need to find someone who legitimately…and it doesn’t have to be someone big in the music industry. Surround yourself with people on your team who you love or your early fan base who love your music. From there, you can just keep plugging and playing. That would be my main piece of advice. And only do this if you would be doing this regardless of whether or not it was your job. If you’re just gonna go out there and take a shot at music and then go back to something else if it doesn’t work out, you probably shouldn’t be doing it. If you have it, try making some money off of it. If you don’t have it, don’t do it. That’s like a Bukowski poem, that “don’t do it” poem.

MR: Five years from now, what are you doing?

MF: I hope in five years, I have some records out, I hope that they’re successful. I think in five years, if I’ve had a couple albums out that have really done well, I wouldn’t be interested in wanting to go tour forever or being a huge rock star. I think I’d be much more interested in going behind the scenes with other people, either producing with other people, writing with other people, finding new talent… My real interest is in trying to better the bigger picture of music or in a wider scope, trying to help other people discover their own creativity. Then another dream I have is going out and finding the next genius, Mozart-level person. I think there’s a lot of great talent out there and there are a lot of cool ideas and a lot of cool music. I think that when you find people with good ideas, it’s this inherent gift and it’s incredible. That’s the kind of stuff I would love to go find and develop, not so much from the label side, but as a producer or as a co-writer or something like that. I’ve always looked at guys like Dre or people that once they’ve gotten their foot in the door with their own music, go with other people and make great music. It’s the goal. To me, I’ve never been on a great ego trip about it. To me, there’s always some discomfort being a solo artist and talking about myself. My real love is music. My real love is to write great songs and be in the studio with people. So I think in five years, if everything is going as planned, that’s what I’ll be doing. Producing for other people.

MR: When’s the full album coming?

MF: I think the full album will be out in March at the earliest; sometime in the Spring.

MR: And there’ll be a lot of touring?

MF: Yeah, definitely.