A Conversation with Mac Gayden – HuffPost 7.18.11

Mike Ragogna: Mac, you co-wrote the classic song “Everlasting Love,” but you also are known for playing on Dylan’s Blonde On Blonde sessions, so let’s go there first. How did you get associated with that Bob Dylan classic?

Mac Gayden: There was a group of us in Nashville who played in a weekend band called Charlie McCoy and the Escorts. Charlie McCoy was one of the most famous harmonica players that ever lived. He played on “Candy Man” with Roy Orbison. It was his first big hit to play on when he came to Nashville, he played like 26 instruments. He had this band on the weekend that he asked me to join. One of the things that happened with that was he would hire a lot of musicians for sessions, so we played on a lot of really famous albums. Much like Standing In The Shadows of Motown and The Funk Brothers, we were doing things in Nashville not equally as popular. So, Charlie hired all the band members for that band to play behind Dylan on Blonde On Blonde with the exception of Al Cooper and Robbie Robertson who came down with Dylan when he came down.

MR: Were parts overdubbed or did everyone play as a band?

MG: There were some overdubs, like on “Rainy Day Woman…,” they did some overdubs. They added the crowd sound in there. That was one of songs that had to be done that way because of the way the song was set up.

MR: How were the basic tracks approached

MG: All the basic tracks were done live.

MR: Okay, what was the story of your hit “Everlasting Love”?

MG: One night we were playing at the Phi Delta house. We were on a break and we went out on the break with the band. We were sitting around talking and I heard this voice in the distance down the street at the Kappa Sig house. I said, “I love this guy’s voice, I’m going to go down and meet him I think I could write a hit song for him.” We had ten or fifteen minutes to get on and they told me to get back because we didn’t have long. They all kind of laughed at me. I go down and give Robert Knight my card. I said a few things to him and he basically looked at me like get out of my face. I told him I thought I could write a really good song for him. I didn’t say “hit,” I said we could do something in the studio. Anyway he wouldn’t return my call, so I had to go through his aunt to get through to him. We went in and cut an entire album. “Everlasting Love” was actually a throwaway song, it wasn’t going to be cut, but we had thirty minutes left on the session so we cut it. We did it very last minute.

MR: It’s always nice when someone’s biggest hit was an afterthought.

MG: I’ve seen that happen quite a few times. In the project that I’m doing now with the girls I’m producing, Sweetwater Rose, they had finished the album and after that, we all wrote the best song on the album. So, that happens every now and then. You sometimes feel there’s something missing in the project and I’ve seen a lot of other artists do that. They are under pressure and they write their best tune. Jimmy Buffet had that kind of story with “Margaritaville.”

MR: And, of course, “Everlasting Love” has had some great covers, especially by U2. Wasn’t it also supposed to be featured in the film America’s Sweetheart?

MG: Let me tell you the story behind that. It was actually in the trailer. They didn’t put it in the movie because U2 was charging so much money for its use, they could only use it in the trailer. The checks that the two writers and the publishers got for that, EMI said, were the biggest checks they’ve ever seen for trailer usage. It wasn’t in the movie, and I took my friends to the movie thinking we were going to hear it in the movie and it wasn’t in there.

MR: However, it was in Bridget Jones: The Edge Of Reason, right?

MG: Yeah, it was in there twice. Jamie Cullum, an artist from Europe who’s a piano player, had a version of it that was a big hit. Also, there was a version back in ’65 or ’66 by The Love Affair, which was kind of like The Association. The London Symphony played on part of the record, so some of the scenes in Bridget Jones used some of the parts where the London Symphony is playing instrumentally.

MR: After the Dylan sessions, you began an association with Bob Johnson that resulted in your first solo album, and it came out on EMI around the world

MG: It came out on EMI only in Europe because there was a big fight while I was in the Barefoot Jerry group because I started it. The agreement when I started it was that I would do my own solo projects, while Barefoot Jerry started taking off as a group. I asked the label, “When am I going to be able to do my solo album?” and they discouraged me from doing it. So, at that same time The Beatles were having a battle with Capitol in America over the Apple label, they fired everybody on the label. When I asked to do that project, nobody had ever heard of that agreement. We didn’t have it in writing, so they said, “What are you talking about?” EMI in Europe was aware of the agreement and Bob Johnson heard about it and one day said let’s go in and cut your album. That’s how it came about.

MR: Speaking of Barefoot Jerry, how did it form and what was your roll in all of that?

MG: In the song “The South’s Going To Do It Again” by Charlie Daniels, he mentions Barefoot Jerry. That group formed out of the band Area Code 615, which was an instrumental country group from Nashville, it was a bunch of session players. They didn’t want to tour even though they were receiving huge popularity in Europe, and they were one of The Beatles’ most favorite groups of all time. So, three of us out of that group–and Dr. John Harris out of Nashville–formed the group Barefoot Jerry. I came up with the name, the concept, and started it. It was one of the first southern rock groups, and it had a special influence on Nashville music.

MR: You also have major associations with J.J. Cale? You were on Crazy Mama right?

MG: During the days when I was with Barefoot Jerry, I was playing on demos with this guy named John Cale–they called him that back then. He was writing for a company in Nashville and I would occasionally go over and do demos with him. One day, he was in the demo studio and he had this drum machine. He put down this track with a Jimmy Reed feel–that drum machine is actually on the record. He called me and was finishing the tracks, so I go out but I’m running a hundred and four degree temperature or something like that and I’m not feeling good. I go in and tell him I’m not feeling well so lets get this thing done. I set up and I put the earphones on and I run through the song and 5 minutes later, I tried to sit down and they said go home. That was a first take.

MR: Nice, Mac. Okay, time to tell the story of when you played with Elvis.

MG: Elvis was there when I overdubbed. Felton Jarvis, his producer, called me up. I had been playing on a lot of RCA Victor albums at the time. So, they called me up and had me come in and put a slide guitar on one of Elvis’s songs. I don’t even know the name of the song. It was a hit, but it wasn’t one of Elvis’s best songs.

MR: Was it bloated Elvis?

MG: Yeah, it was the period where he lost the eye of the tiger, so to speak.

MR: (laughs) What about Ray Charles?

MG: Yeah, I played with him on Hee Haw, of all shows. Ray had never heard a white slide guitar player, and he heard me in the corner playing and said, “Oh, I like that.” He kept commenting on it, but they would never let me put slide on any of the live cuts on Hee Haw because they thought it was to rock ‘n’ roll, which it wasn’t, but they thought it was back then. Ray liked it, so everybody went to lunch–there were about forty people on the sound stage that day. I brought a sandwich because I was a vegetarian. I was sitting down and eating and Ray stayed. The guy that took care of him and watched out for him brought in a giant bucket of Kentucky Fried Chicken and we sat down for a whole hour and talked. I knew a lot about Ray and knew a lot about his discography–about who played on what–and I asked him a lot of questions about that stuff. Ray was extremely friendly and kind, and an amazing musician to be around. When he sits down at the piano, it’s just shocking the way everybody in the studio felt as soon as he walked in.

MR: That’s what I heard…once he entered a studio, all heads turned.

MG: Yeah, it’s like the king has arrived.

MR: I’m just going to throw out some names because I know you have great stories behind them. Linda Ronstadt.

MG: Yeah, I cut the Silk Purse album with her. She came to Nashville and wanted to cut some stuff with the 615 people. So, we’ve done that, and she was shooting some TV shows in town. She was really not a household name at that particular time. We had a great time in the studio together, and at the time, I turned her on to Smokey Robinson because in between takes, we would play these different Smokey Robinson tunes. She kept asking who that was, and we would say it was Smokey. We played her “Ooh Baby Baby” and “Tracks Of My Tears.” We also turned her on to “Heat Wave,” and I think she had a version of that. The thing about Linda is she is a genius when it comes to picking up on subtlety when you’re talking in a room. She knows who played on what record, that kind of thing. That was the certain genius she had, she paid attention to all of the peripheral stuff.

MR: You all knew who played on each others records because it was such an admiration club, right?

MG: That was our language. The interest in other players and angles to express what was going on at the time and that’s how we spoke. We didn’t waste a lot of time on meaningless conversations back then.

MR: Cool. Okay, Loudon Wainwright.

MG: I play on the “Dead Skunk In The Middle Of The Road” album (aka Album III). I played on the album, but not on that song. I remember Charlie Daniels played on those sessions with me. I was playing on the wah slide stuff, and Charlie turned to me and said, “You’ve got the J.J. Cale style down really good.” He didn’t know that I played on Crazy Mama. He called me six months later and said “Hey Mac, I’m sorry.”

MR: Ian And Sylvia?

MG: Yeah, Ian And Sylvia. We cut at Woodland Studio, along with Jerry Jeff Walker stuff. I’m thinking of the fiddle player from New York, David Mansfield. I remember him being with Jerry Jeff at the time.

MR: Did you play with his Lost Gonzo Band?

MG: No, I didn’t. But Ian & Sylvia were incredibly creative from Canada. They were really sweet in the studio.

MR: Speaking of Ian & Sylvia, I remember Cashman & West produced Ian & Sylvia’s song “Four Strong Winds” with Jim Dawson in the mid-’70s and it was really breathtaking, just incredible. I know people who are kicking themselves to this day because that song wasn’t a hit, and it had one of the most beautiful uses of a Fender Rhodes ever recorded. But as always, it has to have the right timing and promotion or it just won’t work, especially true in those days.

MG: That’s right. One time, I was griping about the music business with J.J. Cale when he was in town–we were just sitting around talking and having some tea together. I was in a period where I was down on the music business and he said, “It’s in the song don’t you remember?” If you write the right song or pick the right song to record, it blows all of the doors down.

MR: I remember our mutual publisher, MTM’s Meredith Stewart, thought you were the one of best songwriters we had signed.

MG: Yeah, I started getting cuts at MTM after I left, and actually, Sweetwater Rose cut one of the songs I wrote with them.

MR: What’s the name of the song?

MG: “Silver Eagle Blue,” it’s now a BMG song?

MR: No, BMG’s publishing division–that bought MTM–was bought out by Universal.

MG: So, they have that song now and it’s on their album.

MR: Plus you’ve worked with John Hiatt.

MG: Yeah, I met John when he first came to Nashville. I introduced him to the Exit In folks and he started playing. That was his first forum that he played in Nashville, along with Jimmy Buffett. He started playing there and kind of got a following. John didn’t really happen in Nashville though. Nashville was not supportive of him at all, he had to go to L.A. to get support.

MR: And, basically, he just said to hell with it and had Bug Music publishing his songs. I always admired him for that, and they were such a feisty little publishing company.

MG: A lot of folks have been overshadowed by Nashville. It’s not a snob thing, they aren’t turning their face away from anything that’s non-country. They are so busy with their reputation as the country music capitol of the world, and sometimes, they are just short sighted.

MR: Everybody knew how good everyone was in town, but not everyone could have a signing.

MG: They couldn’t accommodate the non-country stuff, so those people fell through the cracks. John was a lucky one that he could get out of there, but now it’s just the opposite. We have probably the hottest group in the world now with Kings Of Leon…Kings Of Leon, Paramore, and Ke$ha are from here. It’s amazing what’s happening in Nashville now, it’s starting to explode I think.

MR: So, let’s talk about Sweetwater Rose…something about a dream?’

MG: My wife Diane woke up in the middle of the night one night and said, “I want to start an all female, West Coast sounding, Crosby, Stills & Nash-type group.” So, of course, I looked at her like, “What are you talking about, go back to sleep.” Two days later, we held an audition and we auditioned several girls. When the three girls that are in the group now got up to sing together, they all sounded different. We wanted something a little bit different from the cookie cutter type of thing that’s happening out in Nashville. I hate to say Disney, but that kind of gives you a reference point.

MR: Is there a certain Gayden in this act?

MG: Sheena, my daughter? No she’s not in it, she didn’t want to be in it.

MR: You offered it to her and she said no?

MG: She said no to stay in the indie sound alternative side of things.

MR: How is she doing? What’s going on with her?

MG: She’s doing great, she has an album with twenty songs to choose from. They’re really right down the middle indie-sounding, and I think they will be really successful. Not just because she’s my daughter, because she has a voice that transcends the obstacles that most people have to face. I’ve been in the studio for the last year, and now I’m coming up to the surface to deliver whatever music and creativity. The song we cut with Sweetwater Rose that was the one we cut at the end of the record is probably going to be the single. It’s called “Magnolia High.” You know the magnolia trees, right?

MR: Yeah?

MG: Some people don’t because it grows in the southern part of the United States more then in other places. It’s all about Spring and Summer. One time, I was cutting a Tammy Wynette album in the middle of July when it was about a hundred degrees outside.

MR: What’s the Tammy Wynette story?

MG: Tammy wasn’t there. I was around her some but she was on tour. She had gotten with Billy Sherrill and they had worked out all of the keys. So, we were working in the middle of July, a whole album. She came in and overdubbed her vocals on all of the Christmas songs. I think that was the only record I played on of hers. The memory gets cloudy from those days, I played on some people’s records that I don’t even remember playing on.

MR: Well, you’re an in-demand session player.

MG: I’m not to this day because everything sounds cookie cutter coming out of Nashville. They have the same people playing on every record, everything is drawn up now to save money and cut corners, so they have their friends and people out of the groups they are cutting. There are so many good players around here now. There are probably more efficient players than there has ever been in any place ever. Even in East Nashville where most of them live, in the middle of the night, you can call and get some of the best players you’ve ever heard. These guys are just willing to come in at three o’clock in the morning. You just can’t believe how many great players are here.

MR: What advice do you have for new artists?

MG: Persistence is the whole thing, don’t give up. Even if nothing ever happens, don’t give up. If somebody in the music business gives up, it opens a slot for you. It doesn’t mean you have to make it in the music business. It’s a lifelong dedication to music and it’s the way you’re put together. I don’t think most young artists even look at that. The whole psychology of artists in America is skewed by things like American Idol. It’s unfortunately in a bad way because people don’t think they can make it unless they get a break on American Idol. I just had an artist that I worked with and she just got cut after the first two levels, and she is devastated. She has a tremendous amount of talent. She wasn’t accepted by the panel, but it doesn’t make her less of an artist.

MR: The thing about American Idol is that it’s purely “entertainment,” and I don’t think there’s anything as blatantly on that mission out there. The artistry is going to come from what you feel when you’re performing and creating it.

MG: In the very beginning, people said, “Do you think Bob Dylan could make it if he was on American Idol.” Look, what we are missing out on, all of those great artists that don’t fit a certain mode. It’s basically bogus. There are all kinds of deals going on behind the scenes and everybody in the music business knows that. Americans are watching it saying, “Oh, I love this person,” or “I love this other person.” A lot of times, these people are not nearly as good as these people that would try out for American Idol. Just get out of that kind of thinking. American Idol shouldn’t be a part of your thing, it should be something legitimate.

Transcribed by Erika Richards