A Conversation with Less Than Jake’s Peter “JR” Wasilewski and Vinnie Fiorello – HuffPost 10.8.10

Mike Ragogna: Hi Guys. Can you tell us about your playing Riot Fest this year?

Vinnie Fiorello: The Riot Fest promoter had approached me to talk to the band about doing something special for Riot Fest, and he really wanted either the Losing Streak orHello Rockview album in its entirety. Talking to the rest of the band, we decided that Losing Streak would be the record we would play. It’s one of those records that is a benchmark for the rest of our records, so we’re excited to do it.

MR: Losing Streak was a major breakthrough album for you guys, right?

VF: It’s definitely a record, like I said, that is a benchmark. People that like our band love that record. It was our first record on Capitol Records, which was, and I think still is, a major label–they haven’t gone under yet, they’re working on it though. It was our first record for a major label, so if you want to call it a breakthrough record, it definitely was.

MR: Let’s reminisce a little about that. What was the transition like going to a major label?

Peter “JR” Wasilewski: Going from an indie to a major, there are a lot of differences, but normally, it’s just red tape differences, you know what I mean? When we were signed to Fat (Wreck Records), if we wanted to do something we’d pick up the phone and called Fat Mike, the president. When we were signed to Warner Brothers we couldn’t pick up the phone and call Tom Whalley, who was the president when we were there. So, I think the major difference is the amount of people you have to go through, and I think maybe the only other difference is that major labels tend to have a little more reach in the areas of radio and video. But seeing that radio and video are slowly dying, just like the major labels are, you don’t really need to be on a major label anymore now do you?

MR: Everything’s become DIY out of necessity, but it also seems like a healthier approach in many ways. What do you think about what’s happening in music now?

VF: Here’s the thing, Less Than Jake started as a band that did everything themselves. We booked our own tours, we screened our own merchandise, and we handled every facet of who we were as a band. Now, sixteen years later, it’s come full circle, where now we have Sleep It Off on which we will be releasing the TV/EP on October 12th, and we released our last record, GNV FLA, on our own record label. We handle everything ourselves, sans booking, but as far as art direction, ideas, fan interaction, and social media, we have that back in our own hands. And without getting too heavy-handed about what the future of the music business is, I think that each band will be sort of their own manager, their own business manager, their own label, and I think bands are going to become a cottage industry, where they handle everything under one roof, and that’s what Less Than Jake is sort of headed to.

MR: So, in a way, it’s come full circle, except now you have years of experience under your belts, so you know what things to do better than some others out there.

JR: I don’t think any of us would claim to know what to do better than anyone else, but we have a pretty good idea of what’s right for our band. Vinnie had another label he started up called Paper And Plastick, and he gives a chance to a lot of bands that wouldn’t get a chance, you know what I mean?

MR: Yeah.

JR: I think there’s not enough people in the music industry that are like that because everybody looks at the bottom line, and nobody really cares about the art and the music that goes along with it. So, for us, I think that’s probably the most gratifying thing, at least musically speaking. There are still some people out there giving cool bands a chance, and it’s cool to be in a band with someone like that.

MR: Beyond the problem of shrinking outlets and shelf space, the major record labels claim that illegal digital downloading is the major factor that led to the music industry’s “downfall” if one want to call it that. But don’t you think what you just said is also a factor, that it’s also a result of them really not understanding what the art is anymore?

VF: Well, let’s break it down because I think you hit on two different things. I think that, if you really want to know the root of the problem, it’s that major labels priced themselves out. If you go back six to eight years, a CD cost eighteen dollars retail. I think that major labels priced themselves out, and in return, the people that supported the labels kind of turned against them because they felt that the price was a bit more than they wanted to pay…that’s number one. I think number two is that majors didn’t really keep up with what technology was giving them. I think that some attempted to, but there’s so much bureaucracy right now because they are multi-national corporations, so they can’t just switch gears and go, “Oh, the physical media is shrinking, but digital media is growing. So, let’s jump on the digital bandwagon and ride it.” They tried, but just like JR said originally, there’s so much red tape involved in moving–it’s literally like pushing a glacier up a hill at certain times–that policy change doesn’t happen overnight. I think that with major labels, it’s too little, too late when it comes to policy change right now. Major labels make money off their back catalog, and God bless them because they have The Beach Boys, The Beastie Boys, and Frank Sinatra, and all these people that still sell a mass amount of records to people who might not necessarily be entrenched in the digital age, you know? But sooner or later, there’s going to come a time when it reaches maximum density, where every major label is going to be selling more digital than physical, and then where is it going to wind up? Who knows?

MR: As physical goes away, in one respect, isn’t that kind of a bad thing? There means there’s no tactile relationship with your musical projects anymore.

JR: I don’t think that’s a bad thing anymore. I just think that there are new formats, and I also think that you’re dealing with a bunch of old men that are trying to push an archaic system that just doesn’t work anymore. Nobody is able to grab onto new formats, and that was the reason that the MP3 phenomenon wiped out the major labels. Somebody approached them at some point and said, “Look, there’s this new format,” and they said, “F**k that. We’ve still got CDs, and they’re going to sell forever.” Being so close-minded like that, they kind of burned themselves. I can’t speak for my partner on the other line there, but for me it’s just funny to sit back and watch them all scramble like rats in a flood.

VF: I’ll add to that. I think the relationship between people and music is a musical relationship for most, but people do need something tactile, and that’s why you see the increase in vinyl. I think the people who want that tactile relationship want it in a bigger format. Instead of a five-by-five, you get a twelve-by-twelve with a lyric sheet, a poster pull out, a die cut, or anything. That’s why you’re seeing the upward trends in limited screen-printed band posters, t-shirts, and touring, for that matter. If you want the ultimate in tactile, it’s being out on the road, where people can see it, hear it, talk to it, and those things. So, I think that the CD, very much so, is a dinosaur, and the future is social media. JR and I handle the majority of social media for Less Than Jake, so if somebody wants to ask a question, we’re there to answer it, and if someone wants to be critical, we’re there to sort of defend it. I think that you mix that with vinyl records, touring, doing screen posters, and the limited toys we’ve done in the past, then you’re talking about a real future or a real sort of organic thing. I think that in a real way, we’re going back to the ’70s, as far as how people ingest music. They want to do it on their own time, with friends, as a social activity. They want to go see it live, and they want to kind of experience it on their own. It’s a cool vibe right now, man. It’s like the Old West because there are no rules, and people are writing their own rules. It’s sort of a wild time to be in a band.

MR: Regarding touring, that’s a good point. I mean how do you keep a relationship between the fan and the artist purely online. It seems like there’s no way to do that.

JR: Well, it’s funny because it’s not really about an online thing anymore. When you read marketing plans for–I hate to be talking about all this industry stuff, but it really is, to me, what we do–when you read marketing plans for younger bands nowadays, it says right in the marketing plans, “Answer your Facebook messages, interact with fans at shows.” But we’ve been doing that for twenty years. Why is that a key part of a marketing plan? Didn’t they figure that out sooner? It’s, basically, to use a real general term, “customer service.” Say you have AT&T as your cell phone carrier and you have a problem with your cell phone. If you call AT&T and they give you the run around and they give you a bunch of bulls**t, chances are there are so many different options out there for cell phone carriers, you can just say, “AT&T, go f**k yourself. I’m going to pay my bill off, and then I’m going to go to Verizon, Cingular, or whoever.” I think it’s really not far off in music. If kids go and spend twenty-five dollars to get the ticket and then another thirty-five to fifty dollars in merchandise and then all they want is for the lead singer to sign their t-shirt that they just spent fifty dollars on, but the lead singer snubs them like, “I’ve got other things to do,” well then, guess what? Those kids are going to tell you to go screw yourself the next time you come around. So, I think that that probably the most important thing of being in a band is having that interaction. Like Vinnie said, we handle our own messages. There’s not some intern at a major label answering messages for us, we do it ourselves. We care, and we give a crap about what our fans have to say. It’s such a symbiotic relationship that we can’t survive without them, but they can survive without us. So, it’s important to keep them, I would never say “satiated” or “satisfied,” but it’s important to let them know that we care about what they care about, and what they think about our band. I think a lot bands forget about that, or maybe they just don’t know how to do it.

MR: This really is the Old West, isn’t it.

JR: Absolutely.

MR: Let’s get back to the music. You came off of touring for a while for GNV FLA, your ’08 album. What is the main evolution that has happened, in your eyes, from Pezcore in ’95 toGNV FLA in ’08?

VF: Well, I think the main evolution is just that we have more knowledge and more experience–more experience playing our instruments and more experience crafting a song. I think that Pezcore was great because Pezcore was based in piss and vinegar, and the confusion of all those things, you know? You’re in a band, you don’t know what you’re doing, it’s your first record, you’re writing songs, and you don’t care what other people think. You’re just writing because you’re locked up in a garage or a warehouse. I think that with GNV FLA, we took into that record the experience of knowing who we are. I wouldn’t say we were pandering to people who know who we are, but we were most definitely being self-aware going, “This is who Less Than Jake is,” and kind of writing to that idea, obviously using the experience that we’d had, but also pushing ourselves to write a better song and a create a better sound in the studio. We do have one of our members who co-produced the last record, and that’s our bass player Roger. I think that everyone has to have their place in the band, and that’s Roger’s place, to sonically get into what Less Than Jake is and how Less Than Jake sounds. He also engineered the TV/EP that’s coming out. So, with the two records, I think it’s not a vast difference in who we are as people, but as far as a style of music. I think we’re being just a little more self-aware and taking the experiences that we’ve had for the last seventeen years and writing the songs.

MR: From a musical perspective, you guys are credited with being a ska-punk band, but I think you’re much more. That’s kind of where I’m going with that–the band has grown musically as an entity.

JR: Everybody has to put a label on something, you know what I mean? Every type of band has to be labeled some way because you can’t just say, “Oh, they’re a band.” Well, what kind of band? There has to be some kind of label, and yeah, I guess we are a ska-punk band and I think we’re alright with that tag. I think the way we do that stuff is probably the best thing that we do, but we also try to expand out a little bit here and there when we can, when we feel it’s appropriate. So, that’s a very nice compliment for you to say that, and I’m sure the other three guys in the band would really appreciate that kind of compliment too, but we just try to be Less Than Jake. We’re not trying to be anybody else. Our last record was us doing us.

MR: Playing the complete Losing Streak album on tour, what is the reaction from the crowd?

VF: Well, it’s exciting. It’s exciting for some of the songs that wouldn’t necessarily be in our touring set list. It’s funny because it depends on who you talk to and when they’ve come in when it comes to what record they love. You’re talking to a thirty-year-old and he’s like, “I love Pezcore.” It’s where he found the band, it’s where he came into the culture of what Less Than Jake did. Then, you talk to someone who’s twenty-five or twenty-six and it’s like, “Oh,Losing Streak,” or “Hello Rockview.” So, I think that the excitement definitely tends to align to when they sort of dropped into the timeline of what Less Than Jake is. I think that, generally speaking, when you do a full record, those people who have that attachment to that record are freaking out–they’re having a moment. It would be the same thing if I went to go see Bad Religion and they did No Control. No Control was the record where I was partying in the parking lot, drinking cheap beer, and smoking dirt weed. That was the record for me for Bad Religion, and I think Losing Streak is that record for some people as well. So, I think for those people who have that affinity for that record and came in at that record, it’s going to be exciting and it’s going to be cool, and for everyone else, I think that it’s an interesting look back at who the band was, and it’s a really good chance to hear songs that they wouldn’t hear at just a regular Less Than Jake show.

MR: And for many new fans, it romanticizes the album with this new group of people. Then, of course, they’ll go back and buy that album.

JR: It’s like writing a very dirty letter about the first time you did anything with the opposite sex. It’s definitely slightly blown out of proportion and slightly more romanticized. But it definitely would make you go back to revisit, and be excited to go back and revisit that moment.

MR: Let’s talk about the new project. You have an EP coming out?

JR: We do, we call it TV/EP.

MR: Can you give us any hints about TV/EP?

JR: Any of the interviews that I’ve been doing about this EP, I haven’t been telling anybody anything.

MR: Cool, let’s not go there.

JR: Just because I feel like there’s not a lot of surprises left in rock and roll. So, if you want to find out what’s on there you should surely check it out. The only song that I can tell you is definitely on there is “Animaniacs” because that’s a song that we have released on several different outlets for people to hear. We’re really happy with how it came out, and there’s another little companion piece that comes out with it that, if people go check out lessthanjake.com, eventually it will be up there and you’ll be able to see said companion piece. It’s a visual that goes along with the audio, and I think people are really going to like it. It’s very exciting.

MR: Can you say what inspired it, and why you guys wanted to go there with this album?

VF: We’ve been home and kind of not touring, and I think that–if you want to tap back into what we were talking about before with the music industry–I think that we’ve backed ourselves into such a corner where there’s so much static in the world and so much stimulus out there, and I think that people are taking music in smaller doses. So, we were talking about doing an EP or seven-inch, and it got to the point where we didn’t want to jump right back into writing songs for a new record. We were like, “Well, we want to do something in a small dose, but we want to do something fun.” We had a few choices of what we wanted to do and where we wanted to start, and that happened to be one of them. We kind of tweaked the idea a little bit, and after the tweak, we were like, “Let’s do these covers.” I’ll tell you, in a broader sense…it’s covers of television show themes and TV commercials from the ’50s all the way to modern times. With that said, we took some of our favorite shows, and some of our not-so-favorite shows, but things we thought were a good song, and kind of ran with it and did this. It clocks in at around twelve minutes, but it’s sixteen songs in twelve minutes; it’s a small dose, it’s super fun, and it was a good thing to do before we started the process for writing new songs for a new record or new release.

MR: What a cool toy.

VF: I think so.

MR: Vinnie, tell me about some of the acts you have on your label.

VF: Well, right now, I have twenty-one different bands. A few would be Make Do And Mend, which is great post hardcore from Connecticut. I have Wilhelm Scream which is a melodic hardcore band, A Loss For Words, The Have Nots, and go down the line. I am releasing records by bands that I love, but I’ve also been sort of not boxing myself into a corner stylistically. So, if you have a band like Blacklist Royals, which I did their full length that came out in June, it’s very roots-y and it has a Bruce Springsteen, Tom Petty vibe to it with a little bit in the mix from Social Distortion; but then you have Protagonist, which is a melodic hardcore band from South Florida that is fast and a little bit noise. I didn’t want to paint myself into a corner artistically, label-wise, so I definitely am going from one extreme to the next. On November 26th, I have Hellmouth coming out, and Hellmouth is literally an ’80s and ’90s inspired thrash metal-punk band from Detroit. It’s a good feeling. I think in this day and age that labels have to do not only things they’re passionate about, but also have to reflect on who they are, and I think Paper And Plastick reflects on who I am. I love everything from ska to alt punk rock to melodic hardcore to pop punk, and it’s just one of those things where you have, let’s say, The Dopamines record that I released. They’re from Ohio, and they’re very much a Ramones-inspired pop punk band, and that’s a style of music that I love. Hellmouth, I also love–that’s late ’80s throwback thrash metal, like early Metallica and Slayer. So, the label, taste-wise, reflects on my musical tastes as well, and it’s cool that it’s the things that I’m passionate about and the people that I’m passionate about. It’s definitely one-hundred percent opposite of what I did with Fueled By Ramen, when I was involved with Fueled By Ramen.

MR: Let’s talk about that for a second. What is the story behind Fueled By Ramen?

VF: Well, I had Fueled By Ramen, to start off with, as a label to release bands that I ran into while Less Than Jake toured. That became a behemoth unto itself. We released records from Jimmy Eat World and Yellowcard, but we also released records from FOB (Fall Out Boy), Panic! At The Disco, Paramore, and it came to the point where that label sort of got into the bloodstream of what major labels are. And we sort of, I hate to use the word, but we got “absorbed” by Atlantic Records for all intents and purposes. So, for me, I kind of didn’t like where that was going. I think that to be a part of and in business with major labels in these modern times, you have to be okay with a 360 deal, you have to be okay with owning someone else’s songs, you have to be okay with owning someone else’s image, you have to be image conscious at all times, and I felt very disconnected from that as a person with the passion I have for music. I got to the point where what was selling was not what I wanted to do or who I wanted to be involved with, and I was lucky enough that the label was successful enough where someone was interested in giving my X amount of dollars to not be involved anymore, and I took those X amount of dollars and I put it into a project, Paper And Plastick, that I’m passionate about. So, I put my money where my mouth is. I dove into that, I’m releasing vinyl records, and I feel good about it, you know? Who knows what the future is for Paper And Plastick, but I know that at the moment, right now, it’s what I’m passionate about–art-based, vinyl records and digital downloads, and being on the cusp of what technology is bringing and doing it myself. The best part of Paper And Plastick is that it either succeeds or fails on my back, and I’m cool with that.

MR: What advice do you guys have for new artists?

JR: Just don’t sound like every other band. I went and saw this band last night, and they’re wonderful kids and great performers. But musically speaking, there’s no difference between them or a thousand other bands that sound just like them. It’s kind of like a watered down New Found Glory, or something like that. Be yourself. I think so many people are afraid to cut their own path in the jungle out there and do something that’s not safe. That’s why there are so many bands that just sound the same, you know? There are some younger kids in different bands that are doing things that maybe people don’t like, or maybe some people do like. But I think the coolest bands, to me, are the ones where there is no gray area–people are either like, “Wow, I really like this band,” or, “Wow, I really hate this band.” I don’t want to specifically start name-dropping different bands and stuff like that because what I listen to is what I listen to; what Vinnie listens to is what he listens to, and what the other guys in the band listen to are what they listen to. I think that’s what makes us such an interesting kind of band because we all have so many influences, you know?

VF: I’m going to interrupt you real quick. JR makes the point that, to be a band, have a career in music, and to have that “look to the horizon line” mentality, you have to cut your own path. You’re not going to be a career musician by following a trend–that’s just the bottom line. Here are my three things for bands that are new: Be up on technology and understand technology; talk and interact with fans; and the third thing is tour. You learn every single thing about being a band by being a band–by being on tour. That’s a simple fact, you know? So, if you’re a young band listening to this right now, use technology and go out on tour, man. Interact with your fans and understand what they like and what they don’t like about your band. They want to tell you what they like about your band, and they want to tell you what they don’t like about your band, so listen to it, take all that knowledge, and just cut your own way through the jungle.

MR: This has really been a blast. Is there anything else you want to add?

JR: Well, guess what? The man that’s standing behind the curtain? We’re all paying attention to that man now. All the smoke and mirrors? The mirrors are broken and so is the smoke machine, and the truth is starting to come out, and that’s what’s kind of awesome about it. The fact that we’ve been able to navigate through these crazy waters and this crazy time in the world has definitely been interesting. And we’re really, really excited to play Riot Fest. If you’re going to Riot Fest you’re going to have a good time.

Transcribed by Ryan Gaffney