A Conversation with John Wesley Harding – HuffPost 10.28.11

Mike Ragogna: John, how are you?

John Wesley Harding: I’m doing good, how are you doing?

MR: Good, good. Now, as an author, you look at a work holistically, I imagine, the collection of its chapters. Did you take that approach to your new album, The Sound Of His Own Voice?

JWH: That’s an interesting question. The easiest answer to that is no, it’s not a kind of a concept album. But when I found out I was going to be making the album with all of these guys who play in The Decemberists, when I met them and thought that they would be a great set of players to make the record, I thought, “Well, I will get Scott to produce it, and Peter Buck from R.E.M lives in Portland, so that can be the core band.” When they said yes they would do it, I definitely went through my 20 or 30 songs that I had around and picked the ones that I thought would suit their playing.

MR: There are two reasons that I’m grateful I’m interviewing you, one is I get to interview John Wesley Harding, and the other is I’ve been trying to get an interview with The Decemberists, so I guess this is the next best thing.

JWH: Well I’m pleased to be a slight disappointment. (laughs)

MR: (laughs) Kidding, of course. John, let’s talk about some of the other artists that are on here, like Rosanne Cash and also Peter Buck of R.E.M, which I guess have broken up as of a few of days ago.

JWH: I heard that myself.

MR: So how did you get some of these guests?

JWH: Well, you know, I’ve been making music for twenty something years now, and over the years, you meet many people in and out of your lives. They may or may not be your best friends, and you may or may not be close with their families, but there is a mutual respect and in some cases, that blossoms into very long friendships. For example, when I first came into America in 1990, I think my first ever solo show here was in Athens, Georgia. There, I was invited to stay at Peter Buck’s house, and staying there was Nikki Sudden who has since sadly demised, and Billy Bragg; it was quite a wild scenario. It was my first time in town really, and my first solo show in America, so I’ve known Peter 21 years now. Scott, the producer of the record, came up to me at a show in Seattle in 1992 and said, “I’m a fan, I’m in the Young Fresh Fellows,” and I said, “Fantastic.” Now, bizarrely, he’s not only in the Young Fresh Fellows, he’s also in The Minus Five who was the backing band of my last album, and R.E.M who are now no more. Rosanne Cash, I met totally by chance in a New York lunch place. We were introduced, and I’m an artist-in-residence at this university, and I asked her to do a talk for the students with me because she’s also a writer and musician. We’ve become very good friends, she’s a great user of the social networking device Twitter, and we kind of keep in touch through that. So, I’ve known her a few years now, and her voice is so very recognizable to me, and I’ve loved it for so long that she is a very easy person to summon how good she would be in your mind of how good she would be in a song; then there’s John Roderick of The Lone Winters who is quite a recent friend; also Laura Veirs–I needed a woman to sing the parts of the ghost of my ex-girlfriend in one of the songs; and Steve Berlin of Los Lobos does the horns on everything, and he produced an album for me in 1992 called Why We Fight. He also found me a place to live. I was his neighbor for a couple of years. So, as you can see, it’s a lovely web of friendship and mutual history.

MR: Since we’re throwing in all of these acts, you were the first act in 20 years in 1995 to be the opening act for Bruce Springsteen.

JWH: That’s right.

MR: Nice. By the way, the title The Sound Of His Own Voice surely must have been inspired by the sound of your own voice.

JWH: Yeah, the working title of it was Songs About Songs because many of the songs seemed to have the word “song” in the title, but I never wanted to call the album that. And really, album titles with me, it’s like we are hanging out with the musicians and having a great time and we recorded all 15 backing tracks in three days and did the vocal overdubs in two days, having rehearsed for two days. So, basically, the whole album took a week before the mixing. I’m just chucking titles out during that time, “What do you think of this one, or this one,” and I rather like the idea of the tagline of the album being John Wesley Harding Loves The Sound Of His Own Voice and hopes you do to–or something like that. Then, I thought critics can write, “Dave Marsh loves The Sound Of His Own Voice.” (laughs) I’m sure Dave will forgive me for that. I figured it would work both ways, and I’m kind of famous for talking, so I thought it was a good title. It kind of reminded me of “his master’s voice” kind of thing, which is a very old record label kind of vibe. It’s all floating around in there. I’m never usually keen on albums having a title track, like if I call the album Sing Your Own Song, it’s out there, I’ve done it. But it immediately catapults that particular song to a level of importance that you never intended on the record. I’ve always followed the Dylan approach, where you think of an overall title that sums it up to you in every way. So, that’s how it came about. I’m happy with it. Normally, at this stage, I’m kind of bored with the album but this one I like.

MR: “Sing Your Own Song,” of course it’s the premise of sing your own song and don’t be turned off by everybody else’s opinions.

JWH: That song is an unusually positive message for me.

MR: Would you say that your eye on life is more humorous or more cynical?

JWH: Exactly those two things.

MR: (laughs)

JWH: Those two things, I think, go hand in hand, particularly in my work. The nicest thing somebody ever said to me–and I quote it a lot because it meant a lot to me and I can’t remember who said it–somebody wrote me a postcard, this was before email, and said, “I love your songs because they have more depressing messages but you never sound like you’re down about life.” I thought that was an amazing thing to say, because that’s kind of what I’m like. I kind of do have a cynical eye, but my taste is for pop music. That’s what I like, and I would rather listen to ABBA than the latest depressed singer-songwriter. That’s just the way I like my music to be. There’s always a little bit of power pop in there, there’s always a little bit of The Kinks, and the center of it all are the lyrics I like. They aren’t inspired by but certainly in the same school of the people that I think are great lyricists, Randy Newman and John Prine and Leonard Cohen.

MR: Lyrically, I sometimes put you in the same category as a Paul Simon.

JWH: Well that’s very interesting and I know that it’s a compliment, but I very rarely understand Paul Simon lyrics to be honest. He has great lines popping out at me every now and then, but he’s never a writer that I’ve totally gone, “I absolutely understand that song.” I think with Paul Simon, it’s a coming at you left, right, and center kind of thing, it’s great writing, there’s no doubt about it, but I think my songs are more probably self-explanatory. Nothing is really hidden in my songs. I’ve gotten better at it over the years, I had kind of a scattershot approach on my first few records. There were just so many, I thought, good ideas throwing around that it would just end up being satisfying. Now, I’m much more demanding about communicating the exact thing I thought to the listener. For example, the song that people ask me to play a lot is called “Hitler’s Tears” on Why We Fight, and it’s kind of my many thoughts on fascism and David Duke and what it represents. But if you pinned me down, I couldn’t really tell you what that song’s about, because it’s a million thoughts all thrown together. Nowadays, I would never write that song in that way.

MR: Let’s apply that to your novel writing. Would you have written Misfortune in the same way, reading it these days?

JWH: I would have written probably better, and there’s nothing I don’t like in that book. I’m very proud I have written it–it took me 7 years. What I learnt from that book is when you give readings, you find many things wrong with what you’re reading. You make many cuts, you change words around, and that made me decide that my two novels since then…that the last thing I did before handing it in was do a dramatic reading of the novel. I hadn’t figured that out for Misfortune, and if anybody asks me for advice, that’s totally a piece of advice I would give any writer. Read it aloud, you will then know what is boring, what is unnecessary, and you will also know what is not beautiful, so then you can make some cuts.

MR: Did you do dramatic readings of Charles Jessold?

JWH: Oh yeah, I’ve done many of them, and sometimes, you cut the time and you want an 8-minute reading and you have to cut it down or something. With Jessold, I had done much of it already myself, because I had learned from Misfortune. In fact, I just gave this advice–well not advice–to Tony Visconti, the legendary rock ‘n’ roll producer who was on my Cabinet of Wonders show last Friday in New York. He said, “Man, I read from my memoir. I cut so many bits out, it was the first reading I have ever done of it.” I said, “There you go, now you know what to do with your next book–read it aloud.”

MR: I guess that’s with any writer, you have to read it out loud, and it’s going to be loaded with typos, so stay alert.

JWH: Yeah, well I would say even if you’re writing a review, it’s a good thing to do.

MR: The song “I Might Be Dead.” Why?

JWH: Well it’s about the breakup of a relationship, that’s what that song is about. It’s about, “I might be dead, you might be dead, we might be dead,” that’s the movement of the song. Then in the first bridge he says I can remember how good it felt to be with you, maybe you remember it too. In the second bridge he says can you remember how good it felt to be with me, maybe it wasn’t, remind me. It’s about the various stages of a relationship; it’s grinding to a sad halt, and “I Might Be Dead” seemed to sum it up for me.

MR: “I Should Have Stopped.” Lost opportunity, kind of, but not in a good way?

JWH: Well, that song is not true. Some people say that song must be true, but it isn’t. It’s one of those things where you see somebody after twenty years and you’re like, “F**k me! Oh, that’s that girl I used to fancy, that’s that girl I used to fancy at school. Oh my god, what is she doing now, what’s happening with her?” It’s just that fancy situation where you maybe kissed this girl once at school and she’s remained in your mind all of this time, and suddenly, there she is in your hometown after twenty years folding laundry, and you’re like, “What laundry is she folding? Is that baby clothes?” and then you’re like, “Should I go in and should I say hi?” And then you’re like, “Yeah! I will go back to my wife.” It’s a guy who isn’t quite me, but it’s a guy who’s regretting the inability of being able to be spontaneous like he would want to be, and I hope that’s something people could identify with.

MR: Speaking of identify with, there’s “The Way We Weren’t,” your fine reworking of that classic title.

JWH: (laughs) That’s a very weird song actually. That is about a relationship that never happened to the narrator of the song. I really got to thank a friend of mine called Ed Masley. He sent me this thing called “Lennon Tune,” an mp3, and he said, “Can you write the lyrics for this for my next album?” I said, “Sure, I will give it a bash,” and that was just what came out. There are many Beatles references in that one because “I would love to turn on you” is really “I want to turn you on.” It was me providing somebody else with lyrics that would suit his song, and because he called it Lennon Tune, I kind of had The Beatles in mind. He put it on his album, and I liked it so much that I said I was going to put that on my album.

MR: I wanted to ask you about “Calling Off The Experiment.” In one of the verses, you say, “I’m throwing everybody out of the house, the experiment is over.” Love it.

JWH: That really is how I feel about modern medical science, and the stories I read about it when I’m reading the BBC news website. There’s a bit in Oh Lucky Man, a great movie by Lindsay Anderson, when the hero sees the guy’s sweaty head in the bed and the guy goes, “Help me!” And he pulls back the sheep and the guy has the body of an animal and it’s just a human head above the sheet. It’s a mind-blowing bit of movie, and it stayed with me my whole life. I wanted to make reference to that and think about science and what it does. I’m not a great creationist, but science is about progress and isn’t about progress. I wanted that song to be about just calling off the experiment, I’m ditching off the research, I’m calling off the experiment, it isn’t going to work.

MR: Unless you do create a guy with the body of a sheep.

JWH: Well, watch the movie Oh Lucky Man by Lindsay Anderson, a great movie.

MR: John, you have eighteen albums.

JWH: Too many.

MR: You’ve been on every label.

JWH: Every label.

MR: Then what advice do you have for new artists?

JWH: Don’t leave your wallet in the dressing room.

MR: Past experience?

JWH: Many times. (laughs) It’s a lesson I’m still trying to learn.

MR: Do you have any other words of wisdom?

JWH: I actually thought of one of these the other day and I can’t remember now what it was. I think it’s similar to if you’re in music or anything really for any other reason than the pleasure of doing it, you will be disappointed. If you really believe in what you’re doing and your ulterior motive is not fame or money, then it will be its own reward and you will never be unhappy doing what you do.

MR: Thanks. One thing we should know about John Wesley Harding that we don’t know yet?

JWH: I went to University with Prince Edward of The Royal Family.

MR: Get out of town.

JWH: That’s off the top of my head, it could have been anything but that’s true at least.

MR: Are you close to this day?

JWH: No, we were in the same drama society. We’re probably about the same age, he was couple of years older than me. He was a very nice man.

MR: Touring?

JWH: “Are you coming through the States?” Yes, I am, I live in Philadelphia, and I will be touring with the band from the album, comprising of the four members of The Decemberists who are not Colin Meloy, Peter Buck and Scott McCoy. We will be hitting the road in November, going down the West Coast and doing a group of in-stores, going down the East Coast and up around the top, and that will take most of November.

MR: And in December, of course, you will be starting a new album.

JWH: In December, I will be going to stay with the grandparents of my children, my mum. Then, I very much hope to have finished or be finishing the novel I’m working on and have been working on for a few months.

MR: Any hints about it? Can we get you back here when the novel is out?

JWH: It’s about a band and it’s set in the present day, which is a first for me. The others have been set in the 1830s and the 1920s, but this is much more contemporary. As such, it has left me with less beautiful language to hide behind, which I think is good for me and less research to do, which is also good for me.

MR: Would you like to say hi to anybody right now?

JWH: Who might be listening?

MR: We get a million hits a month on solar-powered KRUU-FM.

JWH: Where on the FM dial you can find it on?

MR: 100.1 on your FM dial, whatever that is, broadcasting from Fairfield, Iowa,kruufm.com on the internet.

JWH: Fairfield, Iowa? Well if it’s in Iowa, I would like to say hello to my friends at CSPS in Cedar Rapids who I know have just recently reopened from some flood damage a couple of years ago. They are very good people and it’s a wonderful place. It’s a place I always liked to go. It was very sad that it seemed to disappear for a little while, but now I’ve heard it’s back and I’m a great fan of that place.

MR: Beautiful. This has been really great. Please, I want you to come back some time in the future.

JWH: It would be a pleasure, thank you very much.

Transcribed by Theo Shier