A Conversation with John Medeski – HuffPost 12.12.11

Mike Ragogna: How are you doing, John?

John Medeski: Doing great.

MR: First, can you walk us through how Medeski Martin & Wood got started?

JM: I met Chris Wood in Boston when we were both living there. I met him at a random gig at the Middle East Café in Boston, we ended up doing a tour with Bob Moses. We had worked with him as students and played with him around town and had a little tour together with him in Israel for three or four weeks, which was pretty amazing. Rakalam, which I think he goes by now, also did a lot with Billy (Martin) who was the percussionist in his band, and I’d seen Billy with Bob a few different times. Bob is one of those people that talks a lot and tells great stories about the people that he knows and loves. I remember going down to see Billy play with Bob in his Afrobeat dance band called Muzombo. Billy was on percussion and he was amazing. I moved to New York and Chris and I moved at the same time. We ended up going and playing with Billy at his apartment, just the two of us. That was the first thing we did together. In the meantime, Chris and I were doing duo gigs at The Village Gate in New York City, then eventually, we all got together. We played with a few different drummers when we extended the format to a trio and Billy just felt different. Here we are twenty years later.

MR: There are many who consider Medeski Martin & Wood a prototype for improv, and I kind of think it’s freeform meets structured jazz. How would you describe your music?

JM: We call it homeless music. We’ve thought about it forever, trying to figure out what scene we’re aligned with. We needed something, and it’s definitely important for marketing or the business side. The music is the language that explains itself. We’ve tried over the years to try and figure out what we are and try to fit in, and we realize that we don’t and we can’t. So, we’ve decided to call it homeless music. What you said was pretty good, we have a lot of the spirit of jazz improvised music, a lot of spontaneous composition. Every song of ours has elements that are different every night, but we use a lot of other influences coming from contemporary dance music, coming from contemporary classical music, and all of the music we grew up listening to.

MR: Who were your influences?

JM: Everyone. Jimmy Smith was obviously one, Larry Young, Jimmy McGriff was huge for me; Groove Holmes, Billy Preston–it’s pretty much everyone, and I would say Jimi Hendrix was a huge influence on my organ playing.

MR: As far as your taste in music, how did that develop?

JM: I’ve always listened to and played everything I possibly could. Even as a kid growing up, I studied classical piano, and also when I discovered jazz, I started studying it. I would play for everything. I would play cocktail music, I would play for dancing at the country club, I played in an Afro-American dance ensemble that was improvisation based. I’m into music, I think music is good. I went through a period in college where I became what I like to call a jazzhole. I was very into how it had to be advanced. It was a part of my studying to develop these things. I came to realize that music is just good and it doesn’t matter what style it is as long as it’s coming from the heart.

MR: How did you guys first get together with John Scofield?

JM: He called us. This was back before cell phones when we were first starting. We had a 1-800 fan line, and the three of us spent many winters in Hawaii on the big island, where we actually recorded a record called Shack Man. He had heard that record and this was one of the winters where we were spending a month or two in Hawaii. We would come out of the jungle about once a week to get food and supplies, and we would check our hotline. There was a message that said, “Hey, this is John Scofield.” I was sure this was one friend of ours messing with us, this guy that liked to do impersonations and all kinds of voices. We didn’t believe it and never called him back but we called my friend and found out it wasn’t him. So, a week later, we called him back. We made the first record we ever did with him which was called A Go Go, which was John’s record. It was one of those things that felt so natural and easy. The year after that record came out was a tough year for us in terms of touring, we weren’t able to do a whole lot. Billy was having his first kid, we weren’t able to go out enough to support the record. We did a few gigs, and Chris Wood and I ended up playing with Clyde Stubblefield, the funky drummer from James Brown’s band, and replacing Billy with Scofield for a tour because Billy couldn’t make it. Over the years, we would play with Scofield here and there; he would sit in. When we play with someone else, it changes the chemistry and makes us do different things. Who we play with affects that, so having Scofield there gives us a chance to do a whole other thing than we do when it’s just a trio. Even though we have a lot of the same influences and love a lot of the same music, we’re coming from different generations and we’re coming from slightly different places. So, where we meet is a whole new territory. We kept saying that we’ve got to do another record, so we ended up making a record called Out Louder, which is the first record that we put out when we started our own label, Indirecto Records. It was a blast and we had a great time making it. We did almost a whole year of touring on and off, it was really great. So, at the request of many fans and other people, we’ve put together a live compilation of some of that tour.

MR: Yes, In Case The World Changes Its Mind. What’s really evident on this record is that because you guys played together so much, you anticipate or “feel” each other’s moves so well. The improv element is so fluid.

JM: That’s the benefit of having been together for twenty years. It actually is our twentieth anniversary this year. It’s a long time for a band to be together and we have a certain language. Also, because the bulk of our music is improvised, we’ve created this subtle connection. Improvising requires being in the moment and really listening. You can’t just tune out and play your part that you’ve played the same way every time for twenty years. That has its own benefits because you can get into energy, you can get into a lot of things. I’m not saying one is better than the other because there’s a lot to playing something the same every night, you can transcend music in a different way that way. That’s not what we do or what we’ve ever done. What we’ve done is create this language together of improvisation. It’s very easy for us to get together and do that, and we very often don’t do other projects on the side, which I think is one of the reasons we’re still growing and playing together and still getting along. We have our own lives, and when we get together, we bring that in. It’s really interesting because I play with other people, and I love playing and I get to play with a lot of great people, but I come back and there is a certain comfort level. We slip into a thing that’s very deep, it’s comfortable but it’s not too comfortable.

MR: Is there a North Mississippi Allstars connection?

JM, No, the Allstars and myself had talked years ago about doing an instrumental Gospel record. What we ended up doing was picking a time to get together, and during that time, we met Robert Randolph too, and we started this band called The Word. It’s the Allstars, myself, and Robert Randolph all together. It’s interesting because we’re talking about possibly doing another recording in the winter this year.

MR: So, your new live release by Medeski Scofield Martin & Wood was recorded in 2006 capturing the highlights of that year’s tour. We’re in 2011, John has a new record, and everybody’s kind of moved on doing their own things. When you hear this project top to bottom, are you tempted to work on another project with him?

JM: Well, I think we sort of reached that point when we did that record and then that tour is about how we realized that we have a thing. The beauty is that we all have other things going on, and when we get together, it is really special. We just did a show earlier in August at the Whitney Museum, we were doing every Friday night as a part of our many twentieth anniversary celebration activities. One of the nights was with Scofield and we don’t need to rehearse, we don’t need to do anything, we just get up there and play. We have a great pile of material to play on, not to mention we could just improvise all night and make music. It was so strong and so fun, it makes us excited any time and any chance to do it. We’re going to do it and we’re going to love it. We did a year of touring, and we wanted to go on and do other things, but it’s always exciting and great to come back. Because we did it after A Go Go and went through this whole process with Scofield, we’ve developed a more deeper language. The more you play with people, the more you develop that connection. It’s great to have that with John and have it get deeper and deeper.

MR: Of course, it was all recorded, and that album will be out next year. (laughs)

JM: We could very well. The important thing I think with any of this is that we have new territory to explore together. If we were going to make another record, we would have to figure out how to take it to the next place. We did A Go Go, we did Out Louder, we have this live version of some material from both. The live experience from this band is very different–it reaches higher highs because it’s live and we played longer. You really get to hear these tunes you hear on the studio record, but we really stretch them out. You hear what happens when we do them live and you hear how different they can be. Anything you capture, you’re just capturing that one version that one time. That to me has always been so important in music and what I love. Recordings are important and they’re great, but for me, it’s about the live interaction, that real transference that happens in live music. It’s about how each performance is different that gets into the perspective of the listener. There are so many things that influence the experience of live music from both sides, the performer and listener. It could be what you play at that night, it could be what mood you’re in, but all of those things factor in. I could tell you there have been concerts that have blown my mind and been incredible, and when I hear the recording, it doesn’t hit me the same way or vice-versa. There have been concerts that I didn’t get when I saw them, but when I hear the recording, I’m blown away by what happened. So, you never really know.

MR: I want to ask you about the Red Hot Organization compilation album from a few years back.

JM: Yeah, the Duke Ellington one?

MR: Yeah, that was a beautiful thing, and I think it raised some money.

JM: I hope so, that’s why we did it.

MR: It was for AIDS awareness and prevention.

JM: Yeah, exactly.

MR: Is there anything that captures your eye that you think needs attending to as far as in the news or something you’re working with on a social level?

JM: There are so many, it changes from time to time. I can’t help it but there are so many things out there to take care of that it’s hard to focus on it, especially if you have an email address where you receive all of the bombardment of things that are out there. It’s great because these organizations, through the internet, are enabling us to very quickly send messages to congress people and senators, which is fantastic to have that so available to us as citizens. We need to do that because that’s what this country is about. It’s also a lot when you get fifteen of them a day; there are all these things to try and help. For me personally, I live in New York State and the Fracking issue is huge. They want to Frack in New York. It’s something that I’m against, having seen the devastation it causes in Pennsylvania. I’ve seen what it’s done and I don’t believe the lies, so that right now is a big issue. I’m on the frontline with that issue. Another thing is the awareness of indigenous cultures and the importance of indigenous people, their music, their language, their ways, and trying to promote awareness of that. I guess I first came into contact with that through music, when I first came into contact with jazz hearing that African music had an influence on jazz and going out and buying some African field recordings. From there, at this point, I take trips to places like South America and try to experience the life of these different tribes and different people and try to experience their ways and it’s amazing what you can learn. The world is changing so fast and so many things are happening that a lot of these perspectives and a lot of the ways these people live…some of it is very primitive, but there’s some beautiful aspects of how they look at things, how they work together, how they relate to each other. We can take from this and apply it in our lives and be better able to handle the challenges that are coming up.

MR: It’s interesting, I’ve interviewed Buffy Sainte-Marie a couple of times, and she’s a major force for standing up for Native American issues.

JM: That’s another big one for me too, that was the next thing I was going to mention because that’s also relevant in this country. I’m a newcomer to that world, but I’m into it and I’ve made some connections to different people. Even just Native American veterans of the wars–we have no idea how these people go and fight for this country, despite everything that’s happened here. They all need help and it’s a rough situation out there. They have ceremonies and rituals and ways of looking at things that can be so helpful right now if we were just open to helping them out. One of the things, if we really want to go there, is I really feel that all of the Americas should give these sacred sites that used to be their places of prayer, back to them. Take the mining out, get rid of the mines that have been in there, and just give it back to them. Anyway, don’t get me started.

MR: I understand the passion, John. Looking back at the records that you’ve made, what’s your experience when listening to your earlier albums these days?

JM: You’re talking to the wrong person. I’ve always hated listening to myself play. When I go back and listen to the records, I can hear some good things about them, especially compared to some other stuff that’s going on. Some of it sounds pretty good to me.

MR: Do you have any advice to new artists?

JM: Oh god, that’s a hard one. I don’t have any career advice because the music business is moving and shifting and I have no idea what it is. My advice is to be true to yourself and really find practices in your life, whether the music itself or other things, to bring yourself up, to open up your heart and make that connection between your voice and your soul. It’s about making that connection, that deep connection where you’re expressing yourself and being true to yourself. That’s really the only thing you can do, and that’s really the only way you can be happy. Everything else…we’ve seen it over and over, you just watch VH1 or any of those shows about famous bands or famous artists. Look at how miserable they are because of what they’ve focused on in their lives, even great artists, great musicians who have done great things.

MR: And we have American Idol and all of these other shows that take it from a whole other angle.

JM: Yeah, that’s a whole other thing. There’s music for entertaining, there’s music for healing, there’s music for everything in life. Every use of music is great. It’s great to have music just for entertainment, it’s also great to have a transformative journey through music. It’s great to go dance your butt off to music, and it’s great to sit there and not move and take it in silently. Music is all part of it and it’s all important and I see the American Idol thing is the entertainment side of the music. What I find interesting is that for a long time, that was the record companies. The record companies were doing that. They were cherry-picking these people and turning them into superstars and everybody’s making a lot of money. They aren’t doing it anymore because of how the media has changed; CD sales have gone down and everything, but now it’s the TV that’s it. The thing that I like about it is bringing it back to the people. It’s not some big corporation making the decisions. It’s the illusion of everybody having a fair chance making a billion dollars making entertainment.

MR: Sure, but my big problem with American Idol is its message. There’s a whole generation brought up on American Idol who are learning how to be an “artist” from the show.

JM: It started in the eighties with the record companies, people being brought up on terrible artists and bands that were the bubble gum thing at the moment, created by the record company like a commodity. It’s not different, it’s the same stuff that’s been going on, it’s just a different outlet for it. Anybody who’s looking for that and that’s what they want, that’s what they deserve. I think what you also see because of that is the backlash–live music is as big as it’s ever been, even with this economy. People can’t pay as much and people can’t go to as many shows, but people are going out to see shows. There are always going to be people sitting in front of the TV eating potato chips, sitting in front of whatever the device is. There are going to be people sitting in front of it getting superficial and sometimes maybe deep experiences from it. I don’t even have a television and I haven’t had one for a long time, but I remember getting some stuff out of watching things back in the day. I do hear what you’re saying and I think it’s scary, but I also think it’s everywhere in the culture. People don’t know where food comes from, let alone music. They go to the grocery store, and some people don’t even know that vegetables are grown in the ground or that a slab of meat comes off the side of a cow. It really is just the way it is.

MR: What, no steak trees?

JM: (laughs) It makes some people want it more than the real thing, and it makes people go for it. It makes the real thing that much more special when it happens. I have fantasies of a different world where all music is one hundred percent spiritual, and even the dance and entertainment music is a part of some ritualistic, primitive, cultural experience. It’s not the world we live in, so we just have to do what we can. All of those things are just forms, it’s really just about the energy that’s created and we just try to create that energy. That’s what we’ve always tried to do since we first went out, to create this certain energy that’s real and about trying to go deeper and explore.

MR: John, about every performance being different, there are these very dense collections, such as Miles Davis’ various releases, that contain every outtake. I’m not sure how I feel about that approach, although yeah, each take is different.

JM: I hear what you’re saying. I agree it’s a different take, but it is also just trying to repackage this stuff and sell it again because they’re not putting anything new out that’s good. Oh I’m sorry, did I say that? (laughs) You know what I mean? But I agree with you, those guys didn’t put out those alternate takes for a reason. They do it when people are dead and I’m personally glad as a scholar of music. I love to listen to it, but it’s a little weird. In a way, it has to do with the kind of culture that has YouTube and everybody’s documenting everything all of the time on their cell phones. You can see stuff happening anywhere because they shot it on their cell phone and now it’s on YouTube. Also reality TV. People love the outtakes of live.

MR: By the way, what is your favorite keyboard these days.

JM: Oh, you know, what if there could only be one keyboard, it would be piano and Hammond B3. I love them all, but if I had one, it would be piano because you don’t have to plug it in. But you do have to tune it, which is difficult, but I love them all. The piano and the Hammond, each of them are a universe and a lifetime of study and endless what you can do with them.

MR: Is there a new project you guys might be working on next year?

JM: We have a couple of things we’re going to do. We might actually do a project with vocalists. We’re talking about something where we work with a bunch of different ones, which is not really that new of an idea, but for us it is after twenty years of not doing that, except maybe once. We also have a whole other project evolving, this rhythmic concept that Billy Martin has really codified and has put into a book of his. We do a music camp every summer in August, and we use sort of this rhythmic notation that Billy created and this way of approaching rhythm. I think we would like to do a record that really explores just that.

MR: Fantastic. John, I love your work and I really appreciate your time.

JM: No problem, thank you.

Transcribed By Theo Shier