A Conversation with Herbie Hancock – HuffPost 10.20.14
Mike Ragogna: Okay, first there was the album, Possibilities. Then, there was the video. Now, of course, comes the book, which begs the question, when is the Broadway musical coming?
Herbie Hancock: [laughs]
MR: Herbie, how did you and Lisa Dickey collaborate on the book Possibilities?
HH: Well, she lives actually near my house. She would come over with her computer and it would be a combination of conversations and interview in a way, she’d ask me questions but sometimes they would stimulate memories of events or circumstances or people from my past and I would talk to her about it and that would stimulate more questions from her about certain details. That was primarily how we worked.
MR: After reading your book and because of your approach to music, I take your title to really mean, “You know what? Anything’s possible.”
HH: Absolutely. I’m saying that everybody has infinite opportunities for exploration in a forward motion of their life and hopefully this is an encouragement for people to not be afraid to get out of their comfort zone and examine new territory, new ideas, new perspectives as part of the growth process.
MR: You have whole sections of the book dedicated to people you’ve collaborated with. When you get together with someone creatively, how do you reconcile your structureless structure and your approach to music with someone else’s, other than, you know, just being a patient, benevolent guy?
HH: [laughs] Well, I always take on the challenge of, “How can I unite with this person so that they are free to express their ideas and find a common ground or a point where we can kind of intermesh maybe like a fabric, with some threads that are going horizontal and some that are going vertical but make a beautiful tapestry. I look for some way to do that so that each feels satisfied with their contribution. I also like the idea of hopefully providing an atmosphere more open than the artist is used to. In a lot of cases the artists have surprised me at how much more there is to them than what many people have heard from their recordings. There are more extensions to their ability to create. They love the opportunity to be able to show that creativity in a form that perhaps their fans aren’t used to.
MR: Does that discovery process come from trying to make music with you? Do you do some mentoring during the process?
HH: The first thing that happens is they say yes when they’re asked to be on my record. If they say no, there might be a problem. It means they won’t be on the record and your question wouldn’t be answered.
MR: What you’re saying is it starts with a yes, and maybe that’s the key.
HH: In a sense, it really is. If they say yes, it means that they must feel some conneciton with me or my muisc or my approach.
MR: Or the possibilities?
HH: Or the possibilities! That’s perfect…that fits into exactly what I’m about.
MR: Herbie, you have the improv muse and the structure muse. It seems like there would be a little battle between those. How do you personally reconcile them?
HH: Within myself, I’m a jazz musician. We improvise. But at the same time, traditionally, we improvise off of a structure. There’s a chord structure. We just create new melodies on top of the chord structure from whatever the song is. That’s the improvisation. Create the new melodies in the moment. And also, harmonically, we can make adjustments. There’s a lot of different ways, without being too technical, of making improvisation happen rhythmically, harmonically and melodically, and still have a sense of structure but also a sense of the complete freedom of improv. There isn’t one single fifty/fifty balance in jazz. The amount of structure and the amount of complete freedom can vary. It depends on the decisionmaking process beforehand for how you might approach a project.
For instance, I just did a duet tour with Wayne Shorter. He played soprano saxophone and I was on acoustic piano and synthesizer. We actually decided that we wanted to really have as little predetermined structure as possible. Our rehearsal and our development time was spent mostly talking. We didn’t really play but we talked about the melodies that mothers would sing to their babies. We also talked about fairytales. Wayne is very much into fairytales. He has all kinds of figurines and stuff. He goes to comic book fairs and all those things. We also talked about science fiction, which I’m into and he’s into. We also talked about cosmological things like the big bang and dark energy and dark matter. That was kind of our rehearsal, in a way. It was only about eight concerts that we did, but I would say ninety-five percent of the concerts were improvised.
MR: It seems exploring that mutual headspace was the actual rehearsal.
HH: Exactly. That’s the foundational work that we did to prepare for the concert. The actual performance was based primarily off of trust of each other and of ourselves and everything that we had to draw upon from our life experience and from our musical experience and let those things be the guide in the moment. I’m saying that to add to what I was talking about before. That balance can be quite wide…and also quite challenging! I always say, “If it’s not a challenge, I’m not working hard enough.”
MR: A lot of musicians space out a bit when they go into their zone, but it seems you’ve got to be more in the moment than ever when syncing with other musicians because you’ve got to be understanding of what the other guy’s doing. After all, you’re having a relationship.
HH: Yeah, exactly. We have to be really united, but actually, really trusting of ourselves combined with being non-judgemental. You can’t think, “Oh, I didn’t like what he did,” or “I don’t like what I did,” or anything that has to do with judgement. I shouldn’t say, “You have to,” but I would recommend not being judgemental if you want to go to that place.
MR: Hey, if you have Wayne Shorter and you have Herbie Hancock playing together for eight improvised concerts, there must be a moment when someone hits a clam, no? The audience may never know, but you must have had some moments. I guess “clam” is probably an old term.
HH: I get it, where it doesn’t feel as connected as you’d like.
MR: Perfect.
HH: That did happen. But it’s like life! That happens in life. Walking down the street stuff can happen. In other words, it’s part of the imperfection of being a living being. That imperfection is part of our perfection.
MR: Yeah. The imperfection works into the perfection of the music.
HH: It’s perfect in the fact that we’re human beings.
MR: Ooh, nice. That’s…perfect!
HH: [laughs]
MR: One more reflection from the book. You have this spiritual kinship with Joni Mitchell. You got a Grammy for doing the album River: The Joni Letters in honor of her. Can you describe what your connection to Joni and her music is?
HH: First of all, I have such great admiration for Joni for her genius, the fact that she’s a rennaissance woman. She’s an incredible visual artist and musical artist and poet and filmaker. She has an incredible range of expression. She’s so bright, so intelligent. She loves to talk, by the way. And she talks with that same kind of imagery that are in her lyrics. I love listening to Joni talk, it’s so great.
MR: It’s almost music, isn’t it? It’s improv within the structure.
HH: The greatest thrill for me is to hear a conversation between Joni and Wayne Shorter. They are so much on the same wavelength. Instead of passing from one idea to the next in a conversation they can skip over things and both know exactly where they are and land in the same place. I feel like I’m a fly on the wall and I’m watching this incredible match that’s going on and it’s fascinating.
MR: She once told me that Wayne was so great, she could request, “I want something that sounds yellow” and he would say, “Okay!” and just play it.
HH: Absolutely. I watched that happen so many times. He would do a take and there would be some flurry of notes. We would play it back and I would say, “Oh, there’s a moment there,” and she would say, “Herbie! That’s exactly right, because my words are ‘such and such’ in this moment and he’s playing ‘this,'” and I’d go, “Wow, you’re right. It’s incredible.” He’s just got this sixth sense, he’s somehow able to intuitively know what’s appropriate.
MR: Sounds like he accesses all possibilities.
HH: [laughs] Exactly.
MR: You have a box set out on Legacy that’s such a large statement about Herbie Hancock. It represents so much progression and so much experimentation and funk and soul and jazz. That’s how I feel about it but what do you think about that box?
HH: My first thought was, “Damn, I sure did a lot of s**t, didn’t I?” [laughs] Especially if I put one song from one of those records on and then I’d switch and do another different one, they’re all so different! It covers a lot of territory. I was like, “Wow.”
MR: Maybe that body of work was your laboratory?
HH: In a way. That body of work is consistent with the idea of possibilities. It expresses itself musically and in my decisions in life which led to certain opportunities. I’ve been able to spread my wings spiritually as a buddhist, as a professor at UCLA, getting an honorary professorship at Harvard, being a goodwill ambassador for UNESCO. All those things are a part of this idea of possibilities.
MR: Herbie, what advice do you have for new artists?
HH: To develop your life. If you have the seeking mind to develop your life and to grow and learn and move forward, it’s going to have a decided positive effect on your music because first you’re a human being. One of your aspects is being a musician. It’s not the other way around. You manifest yourself not only as say a musician but you may also be a father or a mother or a son or a daughter, a neighbor, a citizen… There are all these aspects. Developing your life affects all of those assets, really. That’s part of the process of developing the priceless aspects of life, which are compassion, wisdom, courage, integrity, sincerity, respect for others. All of those things. And quite naturally, they’re going to resonate in every aspect of your life including your music. They give you more to draw from when you are creating music.
MR: Beautiful. Okay, we’ve just discussed your beyond impressive musical and personal achievements. What are some other possibilities you haven’t tried yet? What’s left?
HH: Well, first of all, those are not end points. [laughs] Those are avenues. There is continual growth in those areas, but again, how do I know? Even though I’m seventy-four, how do I known what possibilities may arise tomorrow? To me, all the doors are open. I encourage others to examine that way of looking at life.
MR: Herbie, it’s always wonderful when we talk, thanks very much for the time.
HH: Thank you very much, too, Mike.
Transcribed by Galen Hawthorne