A Conversation with Dan Bern – HuffPost 7.27.11

Mike Ragogna: Hello there, Dan Bern.

Dan Bern: Hello, it’s good to talk with you.

MR: Thank you, sir, it’s very nice talking with you too. You’ve got a great reputation from your songwriting and your live shows, a couple of examples of both being your latest, Live In Los Angeles, and last year’s Live In New York albums. So, live versus studio, what’s your favorite?

DB: Well, it’s hard to say. I feel like they’re two parts of the same thing in a way. I’m working on a couple of records right now, and they’ve both taken something like three years, so there’s something great about just strapping on the instruments and just getting out there to play. There’s something really satisfying about going in the studio and getting something just right. But boy, it does take some time.

MR: And of course you’d want to get your vision and communication exact for each song. Do you feel like that can add to your pushing off the release date?

DB: Well, that can certainly happen, every time you go in thinking you know what this record is going to be and then things get written. I think it’s kind of an important part of that process because the songs start talking to each other, and things get written to sort of fill gaps or expand things. I don’t know. It’s such a different kind of animal. When you start involving people other than just yourself, especially in this day and age, when most of us don’t have some deep pocket record company to just say, “We’re going to pay everybody this right now, and we’re going to get everybody in at the same time,” it becomes more of a chipping away, piecemeal kind of process that isn’t necessarily as glamorous. At the same time, it does mean that you’re taking more time with things, which sometimes works to your advantage, I hope. We’ll see.

MR: How much are you trying to capture what you do live in the studio? And do you do the reverse–see the vision of the song, and then transform it into a live environment?

DB: Well, I think it works both ways. Definitely, what you do live informs what you do in the studio, and a lot of times, you’ve actually done these songs live, so you’re bringing all that. But it works the other way too–you’re doing studio stuff, and then there’s some desire or some attempt to bring that to a live setting.

MR: We should, at this point, introduce the audience to another of your talents, which is that you’re a novelist, aren’t you, Mr. Cunliffe Merriwether.

DB: Yeah.

MR: What is that name from?

DB: I have no idea. I think I was in Holland when I started it, and who knows. It’s just a name that appeared, and I just kind of went with it, and it became an alter-ego for a while.

MR: You wrote Quitting Science in ’04 under that name.

DB: Yeah.

MR: What do you think of the book, looking back at it now?

DB: Well, it’s written in kind of small chunks, so it’s kind of good bathroom reading. I still kind of enjoy it in that context. Every now and then, I sort of toy with the idea of letting Cunliffe have at it again. I feel like I know him really well because of the bathroom aspect, so I feel like I could jump in at some point and see what he has to say now.

MR: Now, reviewers have compared Dan Bern to Bruce Springsteen, Woody Guthrie, Bob Dylan, Phil Ochs and Elvis Costello. I have to confess, I hear all of them in your recordings. Is it influence or is it just that you’re channeling the same flow of creativity?

DB: Well, probably both. I listened to all of those guys a lot when I was sort of getting my thing going. You sort of use what they were able to do as a guideline for what the playing field is.

MR: And after all, Bob Dylan was the Dan Bern of the ’60s.

DB: (laughs) As someone said. Lately, in the last few years, I kind of feel like–and at least one of the records I’m doing will probably illuminate this–my inspiration of late has really been more in the old country thing, with George Jones, Merle, and all of that. Really, when I look back at when I was growing up in Iowa, that’s what was on the radio. I remember “One Piece At A Time” being on the radio every couple of hours. You know, when I picked up the guitar to start actually doing it, then I think I was more inspired and influenced by the people that were known for picking up a guitar all by themselves, sort of rambling around and singing whatever was on their minds–you know, like the Woodys and the Bobs, and then later Bruce and that ilk. I think maybe even longer ago, I was listening, like everybody else was, to that classic country stuff, and that’s kind of been what I’ve been dipping into.

MR: Speaking of what’s on your mind, when you have songs like “Bush Must Be Defeated,” you’re not exactly hiding your feelings politically. You’ve always been outspoken with your lyrics, and especially during that period, you must have been going out of your mind.

DB: Well I think, like everybody else, we were all going out of our minds. I think it was a release. It was a, “Well, I don’t know if this is going to do any good, but it sure feels better to be out there singing about it, saying something, and not couching things in a bunch of metaphors.” You know, I felt very strongly that we had a chance, and a necessary one, to try to change how things were going. In ’04, I basically just went across the country singing these songs. At some point, I felt like, “I don’t know. This doesn’t feel like it’s going right,” because it’s one thing when people come to my shows, and everybody’s sort of leaning a certain way, let’s say, but then at midnight, you go down the street, sit in the diner, and hear what the waitresses are saying.

MR: Very good point.

DB: It felt like it wasn’t necessarily going to end the way I was hoping it would, but I would have felt worse, I think, if I had just stayed home at that time.

MR: Right. Dan, but let’s get back to your country roots because they must have come in handy when you were co-writing songs for the movie, Walk Hard: The Dewey Cox Story, huh?

DB: Oh yeah. That was like a dream gig. Through this character, I got to write every conceivable period and kind of song that you’ve ever heard.

MR: You also contributed music to Get Him To The Greek.

DB: Yeah. Again, for a songwriter to get an assignment where you get to write for a character who is a songwriter is about as good as it gets. Also, to collaborate with my good friend and an incredible writer, Mike Viola, who is just down the street, was just great fun. I hope we can do more of that.

MR: In’ 07, you got the Best Folk/Singer-Songwriter Album award from The Independent Music Awards. Plus, you’ve been doing the DIY thing, basically, forever, regardless of having a major label record deal. So, what advice do you have for new artists?

DB: (laughs) I guess I feel like if you need advice, then maybe you’re in the wrong field, you know? Because if you’re going to do it, then you don’t need any advice–you’ll do it despite what anybody says. I heard more people saying, “Do something else,” than, “You must do this.” I don’t know–develop a thick skin because it’s tough out there. What can I say? You’ve got to like to drive. Try to hold off having a bunch of responsibility for as long as you can.

MR: And a lot of artists can’t do that balance.

DB: If you can live in a van for long periods of time and not be hurting anybody else doing it, you’re in pretty good shape for the long haul. It’s all about the long haul. Anybody looking for a quick strike is putting themselves in a pretty tough place. But if you can somehow set things up so that if you make fifteen bucks a night for a while, then you’re probably going to be fine.

MR: It also seems necessary nowadays, in order to be heard above the din of everything else that’s out there, to be using the social networks and other marketing angles efficiently. But above all, it seems like you’ve got to have something unique, or something about yourself that you’re pumping. Do you feel like finding that element of yourself that is not like anybody else, especially if that’s what makes you happiest about your craft, is the thing that artists should really discover about themselves and focus on?

DB: Well, I think having something to say, which comes from way down deep, and is very individual–the kind of thing that you might find if you go away by yourself to a mountain cave–just having some strong thing that you have to express and that is going to carry you along. They always talk about “the voice.” Usually, it’s the narrative voice, almost a metaphor for something. But with singers, it’s also the actual voice, you’re singing voice, your instrument, and what’s going to convey all these great thoughts and ideas you have. Just develop that because that’s what is going to feed into your writing voice.

MR: Very nicely said. Speaking about your voice–not your singing voice, but the voice of the artist–you identify very strongly with your Lithuanian Jewish ancestry, and you’ve written songs relative to that. Now, you discovered that at some point, and in fact, you even took on the name “Bernstein” as a result. Can you go into the story of that?

DB: Well, I always knew about it. I mean, I knew where my dad came from, and I knew what the family name had been prior to his coming to the US and changing it. But it wasn’t until I went there in ’99 that it just solidified and strengthened it. I went to the little town that he was from, and I was with a woman who works as a guide and we talked to a few people. One of the people we talked to was this old woman who was just in a shack, living in the kind of poverty that we probably don’t have much of here in this country. She just mentioned my family’s name and she said, “Oh yeah, Bernstein…the show factory that they had.” I don’t know, something went off. You hear these stories, and if feels like long ago and far away in some kind of ancient history, and just to have it connect in real time in the real world with a real person in this small geography I was in just kind of brought those connections home, I guess.

MR: You’re also known to be as humorous as you are thoughtful, and I guess that played into your calling your backup musicians “The International Jewish Banking Conspiracy.” That’s a Dick Gregory reference, right?

DB: Yeah, I think it was inspired by that for sure. You know, he said in his book, “Now, when people say this word to my mother, it’s just people talking about my book.” Kind of in the same way, “Mom, when people talk about The International Jewish Banking Conspiracy, they’re talking about my band.”

MR: (laughs) Well, with the new albums, I guess you’re going to continue touring because that’s one of the things you just do, right?

DB: I guess it is, you know? I went on my longest one in some time recently, and I was mostly by myself, in a van, and kind of felt a lot of strength from it. I imagine myself in some distant year, when I’m eighty or something, still doing it to some degree because there are connections that happen that you really can’t duplicate in any other way.

MR: Especially that connection with the audience, huh?

DB: Yeah, connection with the audience, connection with yourself. There’s something about the rhythm of it, and something about having to sing virtually every night for two or three months–sometimes more. For me, it goes beyond just having a new album, so you go out and “support” it, and all that. There’s something about the life and the rhythm of it. It’s just the night after night thing, putting together a different set list every day, and thinking about what you might have to bring to an audience that you’re only going to see that one time for a while. I could go on and on for hours just about what that’s like, and what that does.

MR: That’s great, Dan. The only other thing I wanted to ask you is what is your favorite Dylan song?

DB: (sighs) Um, I guess that’s sort of like asking, “What’s your favorite ice cream flavor?” There’s a lot to choose from, and it can change, but I guess…

MR: …you can pick an album if you prefer.

DB: No, I’ll stick with the song. “Visions Of Johanna” is pretty tough to argue with.

MR: “Visions Of Johanna,” what a classic. Everybody seems to love this song. That’s one of my favorites too, although everything on Blood On The Tracks makes me giddy.

DB: It’s the kind of thing where you say something just because it comes to your mind, but then if you think about it some more… Then, you think about Blood On The Tracks, and there are ten songs there that would make you completely happy.

MR: I know, right? Dan, thank you very much for all of your time, this has been a blast, and I really appreciate a fellow Iowan coming back to his state for this interview.

DB: It’s nice to take a step in Iowa. I love the Iowa summers, with those thunderstorms and everything. I hope we can talk again when these new records are out.

MR: Dan, absolutely. All the best, and thank you again.

Transcribed by Ryan Gaffney